Catalpa
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A full minute of stunned silence means "My God, what did you do?" not "Please continue."[Mo0:0]
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Post by Catalpa on Dec 17, 2010 18:16:25 GMT -8
Here is the thread to indulge all your Tamora Pierce related discussions.
I was freaking obsessed with the books years back. I still quite enjoy them now, but I haven't read any of her recent works past Melting Stones.
The Protector of the Small series is my favorite of hers.
I'm not incredibly fond of the Will of the Empress book, though. And I realize now that Daine is a giant Mary-Sue. Course, at least she's a fairly benign one and does mostly bow out of the spotlight after her series is done.
Oh, and I took my screenname from her books.
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Post by Spectraitor on Dec 17, 2010 18:55:13 GMT -8
Better Daine then Alanna. >.> Okay so I kinter prefer the Wildmage to the King's Champion. But OMG this author. Just asdfghjkl.
Typing on an iPod is too difficult. Be back.
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Post by kaynobi on Dec 18, 2010 12:23:43 GMT -8
I love Tamora Pierce (not so much her Emelan stuff) but it's so hard getting her books in the UK now. Alanna was a big mary-sue, and Daine was pretty sueish too, but I still find them both likeable. I think it's done in an unintentional way - more that she wanted them to be involved in all this stuff and be appealing, rather than them being stand ins for her - so I can let it go. Protector of the Small was my favourite quartet too. Kel was cool and I really liked the everyday stuff about her training to be a knight. That was more interesting to be than most of the big stories about Gods and wars and destinies.
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Captain Victoria
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Post by Captain Victoria on Dec 21, 2010 14:58:24 GMT -8
Pierce is such a guilty pleasure for me. Like, you don't even know. The worlds aren't fleshed out and nothing feels unique in said worlds; a lot of the female characters are Sues (I do like Beka). I just can't hate Tamora's books for some reason.
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Demeter
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Post by Demeter on Dec 21, 2010 22:25:09 GMT -8
I read the Alanna books when I was in sixth grade and thought they were decent back then. Now I can't remember, but I have a feeling that I wouldn't like them much. I'm not a very fantasy-type person anymore.
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Post by Spectraitor on Dec 21, 2010 22:52:01 GMT -8
O.O
Yeap, another fan of the Protector of the Small Quartet. Though I do have a soft spot for the Magic Circle Series. And oddly enough I really really liked The Will of the Empress. [/size]
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Post by kaynobi on Dec 22, 2010 3:10:05 GMT -8
I think the thing that makes her Mary-sue type characters ok to me is that it feels accidental, rather than her doing it to live out some fantasy. They do still have to work hard and go through difficult times. I'm sure I read an interview once where she said that originally Alanna was meant to marry Prince Jonathan and become queen, but while she was writing she realised she'd be unhappy like that and was much better suited to George. I think the original idea was pretty mary-sueish but she didn't force it to happen, which I like.
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Post by Alkonost Storm on Dec 23, 2010 8:00:39 GMT -8
I started out by reading her Magic Circle series (shameless Briar fan here) and I especially liked THe Circle Opens series, where they get students whose magics have nothing to do with theirs. As far as The Will of The Empress goes, I didn't like the idea of Briar hitting on the Empress (COUGAR!) or how she did all she could to keep them for her personal use. And now I'm wondering who was worse: Berenene or Zenadia from Street Magic.
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Catalpa
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A full minute of stunned silence means "My God, what did you do?" not "Please continue."[Mo0:0]
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Post by Catalpa on Dec 27, 2010 8:50:14 GMT -8
Yeah, I can kind of excuse Alanna for being sueish because it was her first series, and she was pretty young when she was writing the whole thing.Plus, aside from the whole: "Women can do things too!", which is basically the message in all her books, Alanna didn't seem as much as an author mouthpiece and paragon of good virtue as Daine did. But I digress. I still did enjoy the Wild Magic Quartet. The problem that I had with Will of the Empress was that the four of them were all so whiny. I loved the Circle Opens quartet, and I was quite fond of the Circle of Magic, so seeing my fondly looked upon characters (well, mostly just Tris and Briar ) being irritating was unpleasant. I came across one person online who seemed to summarize the whole thing rather nicely. Sandry: "People avoid me like the plague because they're afraid I will give them money! Oh, the cruel irony!" Tris: "I can't be friends with anyone because my magic is just soooo scary and rare!" Briar: "I see nightmares every time I close my eyes, so I decided to become a man-whore instead of actually talking to anyone about it." And I can't quite remember what Daja did in the book that irritated me. Maybe it's the fact that I can't remember what she did in the book at all except finding out about her homosexuality. Did she do anything at all?
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Captain Victoria
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My oolong heals, and your dealer deals for quite a hefty fee. So I self-medicate with tea.[Mo0:13]
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Post by Captain Victoria on Dec 27, 2010 12:59:32 GMT -8
Yeah, I can kind of excuse Alanna for being sueish because it was her first series, and she was pretty young when she was writing the whole thing.Plus, aside from the whole: "Women can do things too!", which is basically the message in all her books, Alanna didn't seem as much as an author mouthpiece and paragon of good virtue as Daine did. But I digress. I still did enjoy the Wild Magic Quartet. The problem that I had with Will of the Empress was that the four of them were all so whiny. I loved the Circle Opens quartet, and I was quite fond of the Circle of Magic, so seeing my fondly looked upon characters (well, mostly just Tris and Briar ) being irritating was unpleasant. I came across one person online who seemed to summarize the whole thing rather nicely. Sandry: "People avoid me like the plague because they're afraid I will give them money! Oh, the cruel irony!" Tris: "I can't be friends with anyone because my magic is just soooo scary and rare!" Briar: "I see nightmares every time I close my eyes, so I decided to become a man-whore instead of actually talking to anyone about it." And I can't quite remember what Daja did in the book that irritated me. Maybe it's the fact that I can't remember what she did in the book at all except finding out about her homosexuality. Did she do anything at all? Daja was such a forgettable character, imo. If you ask me, she did jack for the series.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Jan 17, 2011 10:08:10 GMT -8
I loved the Tortall series growing up but gave up on Pierce after the first Beka Cooper book. I found that Pierce had started focusing too much on the battle aspects of her books and less on character development. Even though I read that entire book I still felt like I had no idea who Beka was.
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Post by kaynobi on Nov 26, 2011 3:31:34 GMT -8
I recently read Terrier and I'm almost done with Bloodhound right now. I like Beka and her friends but I have to admit the stories should have been shortened. it's great that Pierce can put more details in her books but the longer ones she's written (The Trickster and Beka books) are my least favourite.
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on May 9, 2012 15:44:06 GMT -8
I love Tamora Pierce. I've never read the one about Knights, but I lurve the Emelan stuff. I disagree about Emelan. It feels like a fully fleshed out world to me, and I thought it really stuck out in my mind. I thought it was really cool how she decided to show the magic of "normal" stuff like threadwork. It's honestly been a big help to me when I'm creating my own system of magic. And I liked Daja. I have mixed feelings on Will of the Empress. I think it's depressing that the four that I came to know and love can barely talk to each other, but then it was really cool at the end when they finally make up. My issue with it is that it feels like it has no plot until almost the very end. DX Oh and Zenadia was definitely worse; at least Berenene wasn't routinely slaughtering children.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 11, 2012 17:42:25 GMT -8
I haven't read the Emelan stuff but I do have most of her Tortall series. I still don't have the new Beka Cooper one, or Daine's series.
I think my favourite has been Alanna's series so far. I don't find her to be too Sueish. After all she actually does have her issues and flaws that do get in her way. I remember when I was 8 or 9 when I read the first book. You know how Hermione Granger was a lot of young girls inspiration? Well Alanna was my Hermione.
I'll admit, Tamora isn't the best writer in the world, but next to Meyer she's a goddess.
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jun 11, 2012 19:18:28 GMT -8
I haven't read the Emelan stuff but I do have most of her Tortall series. I still don't have the new Beka Cooper one, or Daine's series. I think my favourite has been Alanna's series so far. I don't find her to be too Sueish. After all she actually does have her issues and flaws that do get in her way. I remember when I was 8 or 9 when I read the first book. You know how Hermione Granger was a lot of young girls inspiration? Well Alanna was my Hermione. I'll admit, Tamora isn't the best writer in the world, but next to Meyer she's a goddess. I've never read the Tortall series, but I've heard similar Sue criticisms leveled at the Emelan series. See, I don't agree with that. Her characters are basically awesome and extremely powerful, but unlike a Sue, it's not to the point where it would (or should) destroy any conflict, and not everyone is bowing down to them or JST JELOUS. Neither are they treating everyone around them like crap and getting away with it. They actually have their own flaws and short-comings. I will agree that she's not the best writer, but can you really expect everyone to be another JK Rowling or Melville? Her books are genuinely good.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 12, 2012 19:05:58 GMT -8
^I think that there's a difference between being Sueish, and having some characteristics that some Mary Sues also have. Being Sueish implies that you're bordering on being a Mary-Sue. Having a characteristic a Mary-Sue might have is, for example, Alanna having purple eyes.
Again, next to Meyer, she may as well be JKR. Imagine one of her characters stuck with Eddie kins. Alanna would probably roast him in an instant. ^.^
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jun 12, 2012 22:02:38 GMT -8
^Exactly, and that's where people get confused. I'm reading the thread on the how Litmus Tests are killing our characters right now.
Lol true. Tris, Daja, Sandry, or Alanna would slaughter Edward's abusive ass.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 13, 2012 14:15:36 GMT -8
@ makoeyes - Yeah, it can be kind of frustrating. That thread does have a point. Making a list of characteristics does nothing. What matters is how the characteristics are used.
Hell yeah! I think most of the Action Girls in Tamora's books would rip them to pieces. Alanna, Buri, Thayet, Kelandry, Beka, Alianne, maybe Daine.
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jun 13, 2012 19:19:54 GMT -8
What really makes a Stu is how they're treated. Tamora's characters actually have to work for their happiness, and they get called out on their bullcrap, unlike an actual Sue.
Well, on second thought, I don't think Sandry will kill Edward. She's too nice. Doesn't mean she can't give him a good ol' ass-kicking though. Her brother and sisters would probably call for his head though. XD
So something I've been wondering, exactly how does magic in the Tortall universe works? For Emelan, from TVTrope's "Functional Magic" page:
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 14, 2012 14:32:36 GMT -8
Exactly. Alanna and Kel most definitely have their own difficulties to deal with. Well trust me, Alanna would not be so merciful. I think it's certain that Jon would sentence him to death. This is basically the way magic works in Tortall : tamorapierce.wikia.com/wiki/Gift
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jun 14, 2012 17:34:55 GMT -8
^Doi. Why didn't I think of looking up a Tortall wiki. So which one of the special powers from the series would you want to have? I think I would like control over plants the best.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 14, 2012 18:22:51 GMT -8
Its fine. I only did it because I'm a wiki nutcase, and I wanted to see f there was one for Tamora Pierce, like there is for SMeyer. Lo and behold, Tamora had a wiki all her own! I'm pretty sure the Elementals series is there too.
I'd probably like to Summon stuff. How handy would that be when you were sick/tired/lazy? You?
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jun 16, 2012 16:51:42 GMT -8
I'm a wiki nutcase too. It's so well organized and convenient.
I would want to be a plant mage the most. I love plants, so be able to talk to them and be "friends" with them would be nifty.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 16, 2012 18:55:58 GMT -8
I know right? And how easy are they to use?
That'd actually be pretty cool. Although, Wild Mages are not to be underestimated either. Daine produced giant zombie dinosaurs when the bad guy pissed her off enough.
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jun 17, 2012 20:29:04 GMT -8
^Rosethorn can apparently destroy castles with plants. And Tris destroyed a *magically protected* pirate ship fleet when she was ten. While I'm doing a lot of research on real life "magical" practices for a book series I'm doing, I'm finding a lot of it corresponds to the Emelan series. Not only the whole deal with magical circles, but like how it's mentioned that some mages believed you could tie up the winds into a braid. Idk if it was the Finns that believed this or the Norse that believed this about the Finns, but in real life one of those cultures actually believed this irl. And the whole thing about her making her mage characters being "thread mages" and "smithing mages" is based around the idea of making the mundane into magical. There's actually a real life tradition like that. Clearly, much like JK Rowling, she's doen her homework. Yet another thing she has on ol' SMeyer. This is also something she mentioned in an interview. She said that she's based her fantasy worlds off of stuff in real life. Idk much about Tortall, but I can definitely see this in Emelan. Emelan, the country itself geographically corresponds to Greece, and the Pebbled Sea is the Meditteranean. Most of the countries around the Pebbled Sea have a Middle Eastern flavor to them. Narmorn is basically Russia. Their seasons and calendar is directly modeled off of ours. The Kurchal Empire is the Roman Empire. And the Living Circle religion is a combination of Buddhism and Shinto, minus the asceticism.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 19, 2012 11:50:00 GMT -8
Damn! These ladies know what they're doing clearly.
Yes, Tamora Pierce definitely does her homework. There's a lot of things that reminded me of real life traditions, or of Harry Potter. In Tortall, the most obvious parallel is the Yamani to the Japanese. The Bazhir are definitely somewhere in the Middle East (not quite sure where at the moment).
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jun 19, 2012 14:55:47 GMT -8
And Sandry made a net that can rip people apart. And Briar basically created a self-sustaining oasis in the middle of the desert.
In Emelan, they've recently discovered a new continent that basically corresponds to the Americas. And in one of the cities, the caste system is supposed to correspond to the old Japanese feudal system. I forget what they're called, but the entertainers (not prostitutes) are basically Geisha.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 19, 2012 18:20:22 GMT -8
BB approves of these ladies and their tactics!
Hmmm, interesting. Seems like she likes her Japan similarities!
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jun 20, 2012 15:50:47 GMT -8
Oh Briar's the boy out of the four. XD Ooh and Daj kicked the ass of a forest fire, a force of nature. Even though they're not reality warpers like the wizards in HP, these mages are really very powerful.
In Emelan, there's a far eastern country that geographically corresponds to China, but I'm not sure if it's Japanese or not. All I know is that their monarch is called an Emperor, and he does indeed seek to expand his borders. They also practice foot-binding, have people of "Asian ethnicity" (well technically not Asian but you know what I mean), and are masters of working with silk. Sounds exactly like China to me, but I've heard some sources say that it's actually Japan.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Jun 20, 2012 18:42:07 GMT -8
Whoops! I wondered about that, but I didn't worry about it. Oops? Yeah, they sound like it! The mages in Tortall kick ass, but mostly the knights do everything. One of them took out two giants solo (at different times, but still!).
Hmmm, sounds like a dead ringer for China to me. To my knowledge, Japan never had foot binding.
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