Hlessi-Roo
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Welcome to the Chasm. The Chasm of SAR![Mo0:0]
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Post by Hlessi-Roo on Jun 13, 2011 10:41:59 GMT -8
I've only recently realized just how much I do this. For example: I tried to write a story that, while still containing a decent threat, would have a generally happy feel to it, like the old Disney movies. One of my characters gets to die slowly, in pain and completely alone, like he's always feared. I also have a sort of high school fantasy/comedy series in mind, called Strangeway High. Again, meant to be light, funny and very silly, but one of my main characters Papa Wolf tendencies got so powerful he ended up becoming a near-psychopath, while another, a hyperactive catboy, ended up going through severe Break the Cutie. I've been working desperately to undo this. But the character who's probably the worst off, ironically, happens to be the one I love the most, a human/faerie hybrid called Griffin Pilgrim. Let's see what happens to him... 1. Orphaned at four (I don't like using the orphaned thing much, but it was sort of necessary to further the plot, and at least he doesn't whine about it too much). His mother herself tends to be a Woobie: got seduced by a fae at seventeen, got kicked out when her family found out she was pregnant (this is a quite Victorian world), yet still tried to care for her child as best she could. But, I digress. 2. Finds out the only reason he was brought into existence is because his father plans to spread fae genes. 3. Gets tortured by the villain (who, may I add, is batshit insane and creepy as hell, though I didn't mean to do that). Is left with nasty burn scars for the rest of his life. 4. Has his closest friend die on him (he Gets Better, being a magical creature and all, but after several months and besides, still painful). 5. Gets the happiness he found at the end of the first book ripped away at the start of the second. 6. Has ANOTHER friend (she was eleven, to make it worse), apparently die on him, and finds out that this whole thing has been a huge plan by his faerie father. 7. Get's mind-raped when his fae powers are woken, and goes on a spree of torturing and killing (put it this way- by the time he came to, there was nothing alive in a mile radius of him). Horrified, he plans to commit suicide to prevent it happening again. 8. I made him claustrophobic, only to end up shoving him in a LOT of dark, small spaces over the story. And my exact thoughts on reading the stuff where my most loved character gets all this happening to him? "I need to break him more..." Oh yeah- he's sixteen.
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Post by neoeevee on Jun 13, 2011 11:33:34 GMT -8
...That, or we're a bunch of psychopaths. This.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2011 11:38:32 GMT -8
I love torturing my characters.
95% of the named characters I have went through some pretty messed up situations.
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Jun 19, 2011 16:12:47 GMT -8
I put my characters thru misery at times, but I also make sure that they react convincingly.
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Post by annabellamy on Jul 5, 2011 0:21:33 GMT -8
Am I the only one guilty of putting my characters through the most horrible things ever? Or do you make your characters go through hard times as well? Darling, unless you killed a woman by labour/miscarriage; made a man absorb fire to stop the workplace burning down; separated a family; made a perfectly lovely gay couple split up for no reason other than 'it's complicated'; made a man have a dream about hitting himself over the head with a lamp; had one of the father's kids find one of the former's condoms and share it with his older sibling... then I doubt you've put your characters through very much torture
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 1:52:11 GMT -8
Am I the only one guilty of putting my characters through the most horrible things ever? Or do you make your characters go through hard times as well? Darling, unless you killed a woman by labour/miscarriage; made a man absorb fire to stop the workplace burning down; separated a family; made a perfectly lovely gay couple split up for no reason other than 'it's complicated'; made a man have a dream about hitting himself over the head with a lamp; had one of the father's kids find one of the former's condoms and share it with his older sibling... then I doubt you've put your characters through very much torture Sometimes, this forum scares the hell out of me. Back on topic, as I've been writing my latest work, I've noticed that my characters really can't catch a break. Jesus, talk about soul-crushing depression and alcohol abuse... only one of the characters so far really gets his happy ending and even then it's very bittersweet. Even the main character ends up more or less alone. Dammit, I wanted this to distract me from the darker, more serious projects I was working on! On the other hand, it is considerably better than it started out.
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
Posts: 423
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Jul 5, 2011 4:55:55 GMT -8
I try not to use the "parents dead" theme too often, as it's a bit hackneyed. Only one of my main characters is an orphan, and the incident is necessary to the story (his parents were killed by vampires; only person who believed him adopted him and raised him to become a vampire hunter); plus, my character hardly ever mentions it.
That's something I see in a lot of Suefics starring an Angst!Sue; a lot of "woe is me, I'm an orphan/had a twagic past" that's shoved in for no apparent reason. After all, how many people, save those who are seeking attention, constantly go on about their pasts nonstop anyway? XD And if they're attention seekers, the reaction of others is a lot different than it is in Suefic.
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Tim Willard
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Got pen, paper, booze, and ink, it's time to write.[Mo0:3]
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Post by Tim Willard on Jul 6, 2011 1:15:27 GMT -8
My character Greg is an orphan.
He's also a 36 year old man.
How does the reader find out?
"I hope my parents are all right," I said, staring at the cup of coffee I was stirring. "Where are they?" Greg asked, not opening his eyes. I glanced at Robert, who was still pressing his nose against the candy vending machine and mumbling, then at Sam, who was looking out the window at the horde of infected three stories below. "On a second honeymoon cruise in the Bahamas." I answered. "What about yours?" "My Dad died of a heart attack in 96, my mother died three years ago of a stroke," Greg answered, opening his eyes to stare at me. "In a way, it's better. I couldn't handle not knowing if they're OK or infected." I nodded, feeling tears well up at the idea of my parents dying from a bite, or shambling around on some island, or even dead in a burn pile with a bullet hole in their forehead. "Worry about you, Becka," Robert told me from where he was still staring at the candy on the other side of the glass. "Your parents are grownups, and you have to take care of yourself." He turned and stared at me, the bright glitter of his madness shining from his eyes. "My parents turned into butterflies and vanished," He told me matter of factly, moving over and picking up a chair. "All I have left is candy." With that, he smashed open the front of the vending machine, dropped the chair, and scooped up the packages of Snickers. "Oh for fuck's sake," Greg sighed, and closed his eyes again.
No big deal. Greg's parents died. It isn't horrible, it isn't TWAMAW!!!!, it's just people get old and die.
And seeing how most Suefics I've been exposed to has everyone crying forever when their parents die, no matter how old they are, even if they passed away sleeping in each other arms, they never get over it.
Which is stupid. My father died, and I miss him sometimes, but it wasn't trauma.
"Sometimes monkeys die. It isn't a good saying, but it is a saying."--Friends The
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
Posts: 423
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Jul 6, 2011 5:36:33 GMT -8
Exactly. My character's parents were killed, true, but he's several centuries old now and isn't really an over emotional person to begin with. Seeing Sues weeping and wailing several years after their parents died doesn't give a very realistic viewpoint.
Also, for the record, my vampire character is not beatiful. XD He's average. And very short.
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Post by annabellamy on Jul 6, 2011 12:46:53 GMT -8
Darling, unless you killed a woman by labour/miscarriage; made a man absorb fire to stop the workplace burning down; separated a family; made a perfectly lovely gay couple split up for no reason other than 'it's complicated'; made a man have a dream about hitting himself over the head with a lamp; had one of the father's kids find one of the former's condoms and share it with his older sibling... then I doubt you've put your characters through very much torture Sometimes, this forum scares the hell out of me. Back on topic, as I've been writing my latest work, I've noticed that my characters really can't catch a break. Jesus, talk about soul-crushing depression and alcohol abuse... only one of the characters so far really gets his happy ending and even then it's very bittersweet. Even the main character ends up more or less alone. Dammit, I wanted this to distract me from the darker, more serious projects I was working on! On the other hand, it is considerably better than it started out. I should probably explain: the father goes missing and two of his kids (both boys) search his room for clues as to wear he might be. One finds a condom and decides to share tell his brother about it.
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Tim Willard
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Got pen, paper, booze, and ink, it's time to write.[Mo0:3]
Posts: 349
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Post by Tim Willard on Jul 6, 2011 16:32:29 GMT -8
On abuse: Robert is a good example.
Here we have someone who attended college at 14, began med-school at 16, was an intern at a major hospital specializing in trauma surgery by 22. He volunteered and was allowed to be part of mass-casualty first response (something a few hospitals in big cities have)
Then the 11 Sept 01 Event occurred.
He had just left Tower-2, leaving his fiance behind to get someone ready to go. The tower collapses, the ambulance he's in is crushed, killing his patient. He's in the wreckage for 4 days, staring into the face of a dead man, completely pinned and unable to even move his head.
They get him free, and he slips through the cracks, vanishing until he surfaces in Olympia Washington working for the private ambulance company Olympia Emergency Transportation Services (OET) as an ambulance crewman. He's living in a self-destructive relationship with a methadone addict and while he still has personal hygiene, the apartment is something out of Hoarders.
During the Rising, he shoots a cop who is alive out of panic, loses his mind, kills the board of directors of OET, survives until the military sets up a medical refugee point, and gets crazier and crazier.
He develops schizophrenia, complete with audio, visual, and tactile sensation. In his breakdown, he sees a doctor on his right, and a soldier on his left, even when alone. The doctor advises him about surgeries, and since he's the only unbitten person that the military has access to, they keep pushing into the operating room.
He never really recovers. He sees and hears things nobody else does, his memories are fragmented and broken, he's homicidaly psychotic, he's completely unmedicated (Physician, heal thyself), and his friends let him remain that way.
Character abuse? No. It's who he is, how he develops, and he is so valuable, even completely insane, that his friends and allies don't want to try to help him. They let him think it's August of 2001 at times, they let him talk to the wall or to nothing at all, they care for him, and love him.
I would consider Robert character abuse if I had all that happen to him for nothing related to the plot, nothing related to the Man VS Self aspect of the story, nothing related to the Man VS Fate aspect.
To me, abuse is when you put characters through situations just because you can, or to make someone else look better.
Bree Tanner was character abuse.
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Post by Melon Collies [Mo] on Jul 6, 2011 19:12:49 GMT -8
Am I the only one guilty of putting my characters through the most horrible things ever? Or do you make your characters go through hard times as well? Nope, you aren't the only one. X3 My character-torturing may not be quite as brutal as some, but I think I'm getting more and more evil and sadistic to my characters the older I get. XDDDD I'll name some examples of such a thing from one of my plot bunnies I have yet to complete fully: My main boy, Jay, has been living with a rather neglective (NOT abusive) mother, who hoards since her and his dad divorced when he was really little. He is-- OF COURSE-- been picked on a lot at school, relentlessly, and I don't mean just petty name-calling either-- I've been trying to make it so that the bullying is physical and emotional torment for my poor little boy. Meaning, he gets kicked repeatedly underneath a table for no explained reason, is called an illegitimate child because his parents divorced (skewed logic, I know, but it's middle school kids I'm dealing with here), ect., ect. He gets really depressed due to this. It seems kind of cliche, but this is one of my more light-hearted abuses I put my dudes through. The main's first "real friend", Aiden, has a... really shitty home life. Former home life. His parents were EXTREMELY abusive. Not just beating him to a bloody pulp, nearly to the point of death. Oh, no. Lock him in the bathroom for days-- weeks-- with absolutely nothing, excusing his absence for school as illness, is more what I'm looking for. He is driven quite literally to a breaking point-- he kills his parents in sixth grade. With his own bare hands. And he has not even a sliver of regret about it. He was taken out of his home and was nearly put in a mental institution-- but he managed to find a way to erase every bit of history about him in his family line, to make it so he never existed. He gave himself a new name (I need to think of what his former name was :/) and got himself into foster care and managed to find a decent family to live in, where he kept all his sociopathic, murderous tendencies a secret. He raped a 10-year-old girl before he started seventh grade, too. Needless to say, this boy is so far past his Moral Event Horizon it's almost scary. o-o ...Can anyone help me improve on this? |D Because now that I type it, it sounds really cliched and stupid.
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Jul 7, 2011 4:40:50 GMT -8
Maybe give him a speck of light among the darkness? One of my characters I used in RP was called Damon. His mother abused him and homeschooled Damon so that he wouldn't find out that their relationship was bad. When she had his child, that's when Damon ran away with her.
His life is dark, but the speck of light was how much he cared for his daughter. And yes, what we have here is an abused child who can't form relationships. Even when, several years later, he does get a proper girlf, he still can't fully open up to her or relate to her, and she gets frustrated with Damon a lot cuz he finds it difficult to kiss her, and hates being touched.
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Post by Melon Collies [Mo] on Jul 7, 2011 9:11:23 GMT -8
Hrm. I'll try and find one, then. That definitely would make him more beliveable. Maybe the only compassion he feels is toward his foster-sister? Not in a creepy incestuous way, either, I mean like a real brother-sister relationship? That way he's not a TOTAL monster. Even though I kind of meant for him to turn into a Complete Monster. OTL
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
Posts: 423
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Jul 7, 2011 11:59:12 GMT -8
That would work. I've tried in the past to write Complete monster Characters, but they just don't really work as far as characterisation goes. It's difficult to do so; especially since I like to make even villains sympathetic in some way. This is probably cuz as a kid, I used to yearn for the baddies to win. XD
That shows up in fiction a lot; for example, in the X-men universe, most of the villains have at least one redeeming feature. One that IS a Complete Monster would be Apocalypse. But Magneto has a sympathetic character at times; so to my mind, makes for a far more interesting character.
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Post by kendobunny on Jul 12, 2011 10:41:18 GMT -8
Meaning, he gets kicked repeatedly underneath a table for no explained reason, is called an illegitimate child because his parents divorced (skewed logic, I know, but it's middle school kids I'm dealing with here), ect., ect. He gets really depressed due to this. It seems kind of cliche, but this is one of my more light-hearted abuses I put my dudes through. What time period is this supposed to take place in? If it's any time after the 1970's, divorced parents are not going to be something a lot of kids are going to be commenting on - enough of them would be products of blended families and divorce. So, no offense, but that doesn't make sense. The main's first "real friend", Aiden, has a... really shitty home life. Former home life. His parents were EXTREMELY abusive. Not just beating him to a bloody pulp, nearly to the point of death. Oh, no. Lock him in the bathroom for days-- weeks-- with absolutely nothing, excusing his absence for school as illness, is more what I'm looking for. He is driven quite literally to a breaking point-- he kills his parents in sixth grade. With his own bare hands. And he has not even a sliver of regret about it. He was taken out of his home and was nearly put in a mental institution-- but he managed to find a way to erase every bit of history about him in his family line, to make it so he never existed. He gave himself a new name (I need to think of what his former name was :/) and got himself into foster care and managed to find a decent family to live in, where he kept all his sociopathic, murderous tendencies a secret. He raped a 10-year-old girl before he started seventh grade, too. Needless to say, this boy is so far past his Moral Event Horizon it's almost scary. o-o This also makes no sense. A kid who is getting beaten to a bloody pulp on a regular basis is going to attract some notice. A kid who is staying out of school for weeks at a time is going to get noticed, since I doubt these monstrous parents would bother to call the school every day to make sure the truant officer doesn't show up. No food for weeks at a time would kill him, or he'd show up at school looking like he just escaped from Auschwitz. There would also be no way for his parents to hide that kind of abuse - after he kills them (how exactly? If he's starved and emaciated, and has been beaten on a regular basis for years, how can he possibly kill anyone with his bare hands?) then it would be obvious to someone investigating. It also doesn't make sense for two parents to be doing that kind of abusing of their own child - if they really hate him that much, they would probably have just murdered him as a baby or a small child. Also, how would he have learned to hack into official records? Where? Why did he rape a girl? Why didn't he get a harsher sentence for a double murder and a rape? The state doesn't just let you go at 18 for a brutal double murder - he could have been tried as an adult, and at the very least, kept in a mental ward until at least age 21. How can he easily manipulate the foster system? How is it that there are no pictures and no reporting of a double murder, or no mention that there was a child who is now missing? Why is your other character friends with a murderer and a rapist? Does he not know? Was Aidan born a sociopath, or did he just have the humanity burned out of him? And again, how did no one notice? Not trying to be vicious or rude, but you're kind of making my point of why I hate extreme character abuse: it usually doesn't make sense, and is so far outside of the writer's sphere of influence that there are no good answers for hard questions. It is interesting to write about bad back stories, but that sort of Horror Conga ends up more nonsensical than terrifying. 'A Series of Unfortunate Events' is probably the only thing I've read that does a Horror Conga well, because the writer knows how insanely implausible so many of the things are, and is obviously exaggerating to make a point... and he slips in enough perfectly plausible things to make it imaginable.
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Post by Melon Collies [Mo] on Jul 12, 2011 10:55:10 GMT -8
Oh wow. Thank you for actually chewing me out on that-- now that you mention it, they are really implausible. ^^; And I really don't have any good answers for them, so... that means back to the drawing board. XD; Do you have any tips on prehaps improving the plot so that it can be more realistic and believeable?
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Post by kendobunny on Jul 12, 2011 11:23:41 GMT -8
Honestly, I'd say for right now, try to stick closer to what you actually know. Start reading true crime narratives as much as you can, since I'm guessing you're trying to go for a profile of a serial killer or a sociopath. The most important thing a writer can answer about her characters is 'Why?'. Why do they do the things they do? Why do they react certain ways? Why do others react the way they do to the character?
There are tons of excellent books on the psychology of sociopathy, and plenty of the backgrounds and childhoods of eventual mass murderers. Read as many of those as you can before going all out on the abuse.
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Post by Melon Collies [Mo] on Jul 12, 2011 11:27:22 GMT -8
That sounds like a good plan of action. Thanks so much, kendobunny! ^^
...I think this is kind of proving the point that I'm much better at making characters and their personalities than I am making actual plots. XD;
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Wham Bam I Am! Jam
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Someone that you have deprived of everything is no longer in your power. [Mo0:0]
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Post by Wham Bam I Am! Jam on Jul 12, 2011 11:45:00 GMT -8
Exactly. My character's parents were killed, true, but he's several centuries old now and isn't really an over emotional person to begin with. Seeing Sues weeping and wailing several years after their parents died doesn't give a very realistic viewpoint.
In my story, the deaths of parents aren't related to the plot but more with character interactions; the main story takes place just a few years after the war with the main character in the country that his nation invaded. So...it all depends on how it's used?
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Jul 13, 2011 4:17:05 GMT -8
If it's used purely so that an Emo!Sue can garner sympathy then it's a bad thing.
My character is a vampire who's seven centuries old. Of course he's not going to be still depressive over his parents' death; and in any case, he wasn't overly close to his father. XD I think I mention the death of his parents just once in the first chapter, and after that, it's not mentioned again cuz it's just background and not really important.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 13:07:47 GMT -8
I love character abuse, and since my story is character driven about how he handles his abuse over the years, it's pretty vital to the plot. And since they're things I have personally dealt with, and friends have dealt with, I know what I'm doing here.
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Post by Georgaina on Aug 23, 2014 9:24:40 GMT -8
I always like to throw in the old GRRM style of writing: "I like to keep my readers afraid." With him, you never know what is going to happen. He said himself that you have stories where you know nothing will happen to the protagonist because he/she is the protagonist (oh, hi Twilight!), yet in his stories most of the protagonists seem to get screwed over all the time. (I.e. the Stark family.)
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