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Post by Lady Phoenix on Nov 6, 2010 13:02:01 GMT -8
Discuss Leah Clearwater
I may not have read through Twilight, but when I hear more and more about her, I keep getting this weird feeling.
What if Leah Clearwater was Stephenie Meyer's retcon against all those feminists who dissed her work? 1. Leah is considered annoying to her pack (How people feel towards feminists) 2. Leah loses her fiance to her more "domestic" cousin (Supposedly men don't go for rebels/feminists, they prefer girls who'll stay in the kitchen) 3. Leah can't get pregnant (Because to "feminists", according to Meyer, having children is EVOL!) 4. Leah is more butch (Your stereotypical feminist/lesbian) 5. Leah never gets a boyfriend ("Because feminists are harpies who hate penises!")
What do you guys think? Agree? Disagree? Have any other ideas or opinions on this character?
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Post by thewizardofoz on Nov 6, 2010 13:16:24 GMT -8
What if Leah Clearwater was Stephenie Meyer's retcon against all those feminists who dissed her work? Honestly, she is. After all... Yes; although she was supposed to be Meyer's retcon, she failed miserably, because now: 1) Not only do antis have a starting point for discussing Meyer's work in an objective way, she's presented by us as "one of the few good characters in the books". 2) Her plan backfired. Instead of getting more people to support Sam and Emily, everyone now supports Leah, because no one feels any sympathy towards an abuser. She also made an oopsie by portraying Emily's scars in a negative light (as demonstrated by the Queen of Mary-Sues herself). 3) Leah's reaction to everything in BD was completely consequential for the backdrop of the fandom's timeline and the rise of the antis, and even suggested that she wanted to kill Bella for destroying everything everyone stood for with the demonchild. Meyer looped herself into a hole without even realizing it, and now, she has to pay the consequences.
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Post by vampirekites on Nov 6, 2010 16:03:46 GMT -8
SMeyer has a weird penchant for creating characters that she herself dislikes, but has the only characterization in the books. Leah, Charlie, Rosalie, Jessica and Mike all seem to be the favorites of anti's because they aren't perfect. The more Smeyer tries to convince us that Bella and Edward are her perfect epic lovers, the more people think otherwise.
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dragonfire5000
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Post by dragonfire5000 on Nov 7, 2010 7:04:40 GMT -8
In a book that's nearly filled with either unimportant extras and Mary Sues, it's Leah's flaws that makes her stand out to Antis like us. We read about her problems and we can sympathize with her: her being dumped because of that bullshit concept called "imprinting" and her being considered annoying because she isn't cheering on the relationship between Sam and Emily, she becomes quite a deep character for a Meyer story. Now if Meyer could only apply the same flaws to her main characters, the Twilight series might not have been so bad.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Nov 7, 2010 15:44:28 GMT -8
I agree that Leah is probably a straw feminist according to how Meyer views her. She's there to show that Meyer's critics are annoying harpies or something. The character doesn't read that way to me, though, as someone who considers myself a feminist of the non-straw variety.
Leah actually comes off to me as one of the few sane people in a very crazy bookverse.
I almost always find myself agreeing with her points, and I like that she's not a perfect little darling but has author-acknowledged flaws. (I actually think Bella and Edward have far more severe flaws than Leah does, but Meyer seems not to realize that.) Leah often seems like the only person in the room who is thinking clearly.
I wish Leah could escape and be rescued into a better series. With a more skilled author at the helm, I think she could be a really awesome protagonist.
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Post by Corporal Flashback on Nov 7, 2010 15:59:05 GMT -8
If I could save any characters from Twilight, Leah would always be first. She's amazingly interesting, she's the first female werewolf (Renesmee isn't the first vamp/human baby, as we know from BD) and she's also got a half-decent backstory.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2010 16:22:51 GMT -8
Leah was the only character I really cared about by the end of the series. I really wish she could've gotten some kind of happy ending, but Smeyer seemed to just have something against her. At one point I used to ship Jacob/Leah... now I just want her to be thrown into another series where her character can get a proper story. Looks like I'll have to settle for fanfiction.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Nov 7, 2010 23:11:55 GMT -8
Looks like I'll have to settle for fanfiction. There's a part of me that wants to write a fan fic with the (admittedly few... possibly only two...) characters I actually like and am interested in from Twilight. The majority of my brain, however, realizes that to accomplish this I would need to actually read the series carefully and familiarize myself with it, and so far I haven't had the willpower.
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Post by queencherryfairy on Nov 8, 2010 9:25:42 GMT -8
Same here. I wanted to write a fanfiction in which Eric Yorkie, the "oily black haired" nerd who had about two lines in the entire book, goes from being the underdog to being a badass vampire slayer. But, I soon gave up on that one. >w>;;
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Post by Elentari on Nov 8, 2010 11:16:38 GMT -8
What I find really stupid about the character of Jacob is that he is in a very similar situation as Leah. He too got rejected by the one he loves, because apparently what he would have to offer is somehow "lesser thing". His loved one ended up too in a really screwed relationship. Jacob is the one who should see Leah's side of things, but in the end he mocks and resents Leah just like others. That makes it even worse, because he is in a same situation yet he has no compassion for Leah. I'd like to beat him with a stick because of that, but I assume this is because of the general bastardization of Jacob's character, anyway.
On the other hand, all of the pack hears Leah's thoughts so they should actually understand her motives and her suffering. This either makes them really stupid or just plain cruel.
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Post by Lady Phoenix on Nov 8, 2010 14:39:54 GMT -8
On the other hand, all of the pack hears Leah's thoughts so they should actually understand her motives and her suffering. This either makes them really stupid or just plain cruel. Considering she can hear Emily and Sam and yet they continue to be a couple despite obviously knowing that, kinda answers your question right there: they're all assholes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 18:53:02 GMT -8
I can't help but feel bad for Leah. She's the only sane one in the fucked up Twilight universe and she's apparently stuck with a group of assholes who don't even try to understand why she's being such a "bitter harpy". Even though her thoughts probably give away all the reasons they could possibly need. Hell, even just using common sense would be good enough but the Twilight books have none of that.
Yeah, I think I'll go see if there's any Leah-get's-a-happy-ending fanfiction now.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 8, 2010 18:57:36 GMT -8
Leah is my favourite characters and a majority of my fanfics are centered around here. One of my favourites involves Sam getting amnesia and forgetting everything after he turned for the first time, including the imprint. When he sees Emily he doesn't imprint again. Then he needs to figure out why Leah doesn't love him anymore.
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Post by Elentari on Nov 9, 2010 7:12:06 GMT -8
On the other hand, all of the pack hears Leah's thoughts so they should actually understand her motives and her suffering. This either makes them really stupid or just plain cruel. Considering she can hear Emily and Sam and yet they continue to be a couple despite obviously knowing that, kinda answers your question right there: they're all assholesI was having this convo with a fan and she tried stubbornly to justify their relationship. Her answers imply that it's better for Emily and Sam to be a couple than them not being together because of Leah. I don't really understand her arguments. Leah and Sam actually worked together to get through difficulties - they had a good relationship and then he just throws it away for some other girl he doesn't even know. I've tried to explain this numerous times but my arguments seem to fall on deaf ears.
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Post by Lady Phoenix on Nov 9, 2010 7:54:03 GMT -8
Considering she can hear Emily and Sam and yet they continue to be a couple despite obviously knowing that, kinda answers your question right there: they're all assholesI was having this convo with a fan and she tried stubbornly to justify their relationship. Her answers imply that it's better for Emily and Sam to be a couple than them not being together because of Leah. I don't really understand her arguments. Leah and Sam actually worked together to get through difficulties - they had a good relationship and then he just throws it away for some other girl he doesn't even know. I've tried to explain this numerous times but my arguments seem to fall on deaf ears. Someone actually defended that Emily bitch? Wooooow . . .
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 9, 2010 14:03:53 GMT -8
I was having this convo with a fan and she tried stubbornly to justify their relationship. Her answers imply that it's better for Emily and Sam to be a couple than them not being together because of Leah. I don't really understand her arguments. Leah and Sam actually worked together to get through difficulties - they had a good relationship and then he just throws it away for some other girl he doesn't even know. I've tried to explain this numerous times but my arguments seem to fall on deaf ears. Someone actually defended that Emily bitch? Wooooow . . .Oh trust me, that happens A LOT more then it should logically. It happened in one of the threads on the older boards and me and Chaotic Neutral wound up arguing with her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 15:01:55 GMT -8
^
Link, please? I am very curious to see just what can possibly be the reasoning to defend Emily.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Nov 9, 2010 15:20:22 GMT -8
^ Link, please? I am very curious to see just what can possibly be the reasoning to defend Emily. The reasons I've seen usually boil down to "Because Meyer said Emily is better/right."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 15:31:01 GMT -8
Really?! So they don't even try, then? Well then, if SMeyer says so who am I to use my own head and morals to say otherwise? Actually, SMeyer could probably say that Emily was purple and they would believe it - and really, how can we say otherwise if the book barely explains and explores any character that isn't Bella and Edward (and badly, at that). Even if Emily was better for him that doesn't make her any less of a backstabbing bitch or Sam any less of an asshole for what they did to Leah (and how they did it). You'd think that they could, at least, tell the other assholes (wolves) to cut her some slack and be more understanding - but they didn't! Which clearly means they don't have any remorse, whatsoever. And Jacob ... God! He bitches and moans about Bella all the fucking time and everyone is fine and dandy with that, but Leah does the same - and with way more reasons too - and not even a word of confort? Only cruel thoughts? I just can't believe SMeyer actually wants us to like the wolfs. Honestly.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 9, 2010 18:22:40 GMT -8
^ Link, please? I am very curious to see just what can possibly be the reasoning to defend Emily. I don't have a link on me, but the reasoning boiled down to Emily being nice to the wolves and Leah being mean to them, therefore they were justified in not being sympathetic. She claimed that she was "a bitch" because she was being mean to Embry and she knew Embry was nice because she read a fanfic and so he couldn't have possibly started the fight. She brushed Leah's problems under the rug by saying Seth lost his dad too and he was still a cheerful child, and not mean.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 18:45:24 GMT -8
I don't see how anyone can even try and redeem Sam and Emily. If they got together for reasons other than imprinting and Emily didn't basically run into his arms after he clawed her face then it might've had a chance. But because of how the story goes they don't. Wasn't it even said somewhere that Emily had a thing for Sam before she even met him, just based off of what Leah told her about him?
I agree about the Jacob thing. He whined about Bella but God forbid Leah's bitter about someone who was practically her sister getting with her now ex-boyfriend. And Emily never even yells at the guys to leave her alone? Yeah, she's an angel. I swear Leah should just run far away, into another series where people aren't as fucked up. xD
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2010 3:04:32 GMT -8
There is a lot of good material to work with. I see a rogue werewolf chick going medieval on her pack one day by joining up with some vampires. Her so-called hatred was only a cover. Leah Clearwater en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_characters_in_Twilight#Leah_Clearwater Leah Clearwater is the only known female shape-shifting wolf in the history of the Quileute tribe. She is the smallest wolf, has light gray fur, and is the fastest in the pack. At the age of 19, she transforms into a wolf during the events of New Moon, around the same time as her younger brother, Seth. This transformation is believed to be what caused the heart attack and subsequent death of their father, Harry. She dated Sam Uley for years until her second cousin Emily came to visit and Sam imprinted on her. Sam thus left her for Emily, leaving Leah broken-hearted. She puts up a brave face, though, and in Eclipse it is suggested that she intends to serve as bridesmaid at Sam and Emily's wedding. Despite this, she is disliked by her pack brothers for her very bitter and cynical attitude. She constantly antagonizes the pack by thinking about things that make the others uncomfortable, such as Embry's paternity.
In Breaking Dawn, Leah joins Jacob's pack with the intention of breaking free of Sam, since she is still heartbroken. She helps to protect Bella and the Cullens, despite her extreme hatred for vampires and her open dislike for Bella. She shares her insecurities with Jacob, such as the reasons for Sam's imprinting on Emily, her regrets that she might be menopausal due to her transformation, and her inability to rise higher in pack rank due to her gender. As she spends more time in Jacob's pack, she becomes happier, makes notable changes in her attitude, and is less negative. Later in the book, Jacob and Leah's feelings toward each other become a trusted comradeship, though they conceal their fondness for each other by constantly bickering.[28] She displays quite a bit of loyalty to him, and even angrily confronts Bella about her unfair treatment of Jacob and the pain she has caused him. By the end of the novel, Leah has replaced Seth as Jacob's second-in-command.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Nov 10, 2010 12:08:30 GMT -8
"She constantly antagonizes the pack by thinking about things that make the others uncomfortable..."
Yeah, I realize they can hear each other think, but this whole Thought Crimes thing freaks me out. It's like if a real werewolf story produced a baby during a drunken one-night stand with the novel 1984, and this series was the result.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 10, 2010 16:58:06 GMT -8
^That makes more sense then Meyer's "dream" excuse.
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Post by queencherryfairy on Nov 10, 2010 19:32:18 GMT -8
Wait, what? The pack members aren't even allowed to think unpleasent things?! 0.0 What if someone thinks about how much he neds to take a dump or something like that?! Do the others ostracize him for thinking things that "make them uncomfortable"?!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2010 22:37:38 GMT -8
..... If that's true that this pack of wolves sounds incredibly bitchy. Shouldn't they have learned to suck it up and deal with eachother by now?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2010 0:21:14 GMT -8
Wait, what? The pack members aren't even allowed to think unpleasent things?! 0.0 What if someone thinks about how much he neds to take a dump or something like that?! Do the others ostracize him for thinking things that "make them uncomfortable"?! You think they could build up walls inside themselves so the others could it some alone time if you know what I mean? Like a group of horny, powerful young men would not have the dirtiest thoughts in the world, give me a break. They are probably mad at her for being so emotional and not thinking about them, seeing how selfish they are.
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AkumaBear
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Post by AkumaBear on Nov 11, 2010 2:54:30 GMT -8
Wait, did I miss something here? When did Meyer say Leah represented feminists?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2010 10:13:08 GMT -8
I'm not sure. It was either Leah or Alice she used as a feminist...? I don't even remember.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Nov 11, 2010 11:42:06 GMT -8
Wait, did I miss something here? When did Meyer say Leah represented feminists? I got that impression based not so much on anything Meyer said outright as the timing of the introduction of the character and the fact that some of the criticism Meyer got from feminist circles found its way into Leah's mouth so it could be (allegedly) rebutted by self-inserts.
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