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Post by Lady Phoenix on Nov 11, 2010 17:34:43 GMT -8
I'm not sure. It was either Leah or Alice she used as a feminist...? I don't even remember. I think some Twitards claim Alice is feminist because she can read the future or has special powers
To which I can argue that those powers barely work in the first place so it's kinda flawed
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Post by Elentari on Nov 12, 2010 7:07:48 GMT -8
I'm not sure. It was either Leah or Alice she used as a feminist...? I don't even remember. I think some Twitards claim Alice is feminist because she can read the future or has special powers
To which I can argue that those powers barely work in the first place so it's kinda flawedAlice's powers are presented in such a way that she can't really be wrong. If she's right, she gets all the credit, but if she's wrong, they can always say that it's just subjective what she sees. Her visions come true always when it's convenient to the plot. Another thing that bugs me about her visions is that how other characters treat them. They always act like it is the absolute truth - like in Midnight Sun when she sees Bella getting dead'd or vamped. They think that's really gonna happen and she actually becomes annoyed with Wardo when he tries to change that, as if it's not big deal that an innocent (yeah right) girl could get killed. To keep this post even vaguely on topic, I think Leah could be seen as Meyer trying to bitch-slap the mean people who criticize her "brilliant" story. Leah is obviously somewhat strong character and she gets all the shit.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 12, 2010 8:04:21 GMT -8
^But since she's a strong character, she can live with it.
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 12, 2010 17:44:36 GMT -8
I was having this convo with a fan and she tried stubbornly to justify their relationship. Her answers imply that it's better for Emily and Sam to be a couple than them not being together because of Leah. I don't really understand her arguments. Leah and Sam actually worked together to get through difficulties - they had a good relationship and then he just throws it away for some other girl he doesn't even know. I've tried to explain this numerous times but my arguments seem to fall on deaf ears. It falls on deaf ears because Sam couldn't help it. It's that tribal magic, you know? LYK ZOMG. TWU WUV
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2010 20:40:31 GMT -8
I don't understand how anyone could buy this as true love. It's like being forced to like someone even if all of your morals go against it and you would've normally hated that person. It's plain gross and I feel horrible for Leah, having her own boyfriend imprint on someone like a sister to her. And for Emily to not even reject him!
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 13, 2010 9:14:45 GMT -8
Mascow I agree. I mean, what if someone were to imprint on their actual biological brother? Would that be acceptable? It's all just TWACKED.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Nov 13, 2010 12:48:42 GMT -8
Wait, did I miss something here? When did Meyer say Leah represented feminists? I don't believe she ever did, and in fact I am skeptical that Leah does represent feminism. I think Leah represents how women who don't have men turn into bitter, jealous harpies who only want babehs and hate any woman who does have babies because no one loves them enough to make babies with them and that's why they're shrewish. Or something. I hate, hate, HATE that Meyer actually had the gall to say that because Leah is infertile she's not a woman. Bitch. So, a woman who gets ovarian cancer and has to get a hysterectomy is no longer a woman? What a sanctimonious bitch. meyer, does Leah have a vagina? Because if so, she's a fucking woman, bitch! Also, note that Leah and Sam are the only couple in the series that we know of who had premarital sex (we've been told that Alice and Jasper and Rosalie and Emmett have been legally wed). And look what happened. She wasn't his real true love! See girls? If you have sex before marriage than you get what you deserve when he leaves you for your cousin because you didn't save your precious gift for your husband and are a slutty tramp. If you hadn't given him free milk maybe he would have bought the cow. I bet you anything Sam and Emily's special and pure love is making them wait to commit that holy, precious act until their wedding night.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2010 13:02:46 GMT -8
I don't understand how anyone could buy this as true love. It's like being forced to like someone even if all of your morals go against it and you would've normally hated that person. It's plain gross and I feel horrible for Leah, having her own boyfriend imprint on someone like a sister to her. And for Emily to not even reject him! Plenty of royal marriages with no real love to go on has example of that.
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Post by Lady Phoenix on Nov 13, 2010 13:14:28 GMT -8
I don't understand how anyone could buy this as true love. It's like being forced to like someone even if all of your morals go against it and you would've normally hated that person. It's plain gross and I feel horrible for Leah, having her own boyfriend imprint on someone like a sister to her. And for Emily to not even reject him! Plenty of royal marriages with no real love to go on has example of that. And we all know how fucked up the kids can be because of it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2010 17:37:46 GMT -8
Woah, did Meyer actually say that? I haven't read the books or looked at interviews in awhile. I do remember it being said somewhere though, was it in Breaking Dawn or something else?
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Post by Lady Phoenix on Nov 13, 2010 19:57:08 GMT -8
Hey guys, just to let you know, what I said about Leah (her being Meyer's retcon to her feminist critics) was purely MY opinion.
She never said anything about Leah being her cunt punt to feminists in her interviews, so it isn't official.
This was simply MY thoughts on why Leah was treated so poorly
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 13, 2010 22:32:06 GMT -8
^Makes sense to me though.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Nov 14, 2010 9:27:20 GMT -8
Woah, did Meyer actually say that? I haven't read the books or looked at interviews in awhile. I do remember it being said somewhere though, was it in Breaking Dawn or something else? It was, I know it was in the Jacob section. I'll see if I can find the exact quote for you. Edit: Found it. Breaking Dawn page 239: Bolded parts are mine, just emphasizing the two worst lines in that horrible insult to women everywhere of an excerpt. Note that if woman who can't reproduce is a horror and her very status of being becomes questionable. And, as I said, Leah can't reproduce and so she isn't a female as she should be. Yes, she should have the babehs because that is what woman were put on this earth to do. Women who can't have children and probably in Meyer's mind women who voluntarily choose not to are not females as the should be. In Meyer's world women should have children. Because she is God and has the authority and right to tell women (including her teenage primary audience) that it is their purpose in life to have children and if they don't they are not a real woman. I don't know what Meyer considers them to be, but they aren't women. Also, what does she consider women who can't or choose not to have biological children and instead choose to adopt or foster children? Are they real women because they are mothers or are they just pretend women because they have wasted their uterus? So many questions! I'm going to go out and say I want to have kids. I love them and honestly want to have like five. But even as someone who honestly feels like her life would feel in some way incomplete without a family (be the children biological or adoptive) I am appalled and insulted by this insinuation.
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 14, 2010 11:48:00 GMT -8
Dear lord, I remember that quote. I was incredibly pissed off because I do not want kids. Reading this bit just ticked me off.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2010 14:34:52 GMT -8
To be honest, I somehow never got the part about how Leah and Sam slept together in the past. It just never clicked until now.
But really, what are those bolded parts supposed to mean? That if you can't have kids you're automatically not even female anymore? Have any of the girls in this series ever claimed to not want kids? I don't even think I want kids one day, what is this supposed to be saying to anyone who DOESN'T want kids? That we're mental or "not as female as we should be"? Or maybe this was some way of them believing she was transgendered because of it.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Nov 14, 2010 18:48:48 GMT -8
Moscow, don't be silly, of course all the female characters in the series want kids. They're female so they must!!!!
Well, to be fair Alice never mentions anything either way and Bella claims to have no interest in kids until she gets knocked up and she thinks the demon child is a "necessity"
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Post by queencherryfairy on Nov 14, 2010 22:06:19 GMT -8
Oh my Goddess. 0.0
Whe fact that....she actually said that. That infertile women are less than female.
THAT'S IT! I'M OFF TO PUNCH THIS BITCH IN THE FACE! D8<
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2010 22:45:32 GMT -8
Leah is my favourite characters and a majority of my fanfics are centered around here. One of my favourites involves Sam getting amnesia and forgetting everything after he turned for the first time, including the imprint. When he sees Emily he doesn't imprint again. Then he needs to figure out why Leah doesn't love him anymore. Link Plox?
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 15, 2010 15:17:43 GMT -8
It is still in progress, but when I finish it I'll put it up on the boards. I'm still stuck on wether Leah takes him back at the end or not.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Nov 15, 2010 15:39:35 GMT -8
It is still in progress, but when I finish it I'll put it up on the boards. I'm still stuck on wether Leah takes him back at the end or not. Personally I think Leah could do better. *shrug*
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Post by queencherryfairy on Nov 15, 2010 15:44:56 GMT -8
It is still in progress, but when I finish it I'll put it up on the boards. I'm still stuck on wether Leah takes him back at the end or not. I vote not, but choose whichever ending you think would be best.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 15, 2010 16:40:56 GMT -8
^Yeah that was the idea, but I figured that with the imprint gone and not coming back, and everything they had before, I'm still considering it. I doubt she will though.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Nov 16, 2010 12:48:35 GMT -8
Wait, what? The pack members aren't even allowed to think unpleasent things?! 0.0 What if someone thinks about how much he neds to take a dump or something like that?! Do the others ostracize him for thinking things that "make them uncomfortable"?! Don't be silly! Of course the pack members can think whatever they want- so long as they have a penis. Only Leah yells at Jacob for having sex fantasies about Bella while in wolf form. Because she's a catty bitch who can't get laid and even on the off chance she did she can't get pregnant.
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Post by reniefuwa on Nov 16, 2010 12:56:16 GMT -8
Wait, what? The pack members aren't even allowed to think unpleasent things?! 0.0 What if someone thinks about how much he neds to take a dump or something like that?! Do the others ostracize him for thinking things that "make them uncomfortable"?! Don't be silly! Of course the pack members can think whatever they want- so long as they have a penis. Only Leah yells at Jacob for having sex fantasies about Bella while in wolf form. Because she's a catty bitch who can't get laid and even on the off chance she did she can't get pregnant. Yeah, it's completely because she's fundamentally different. If another guy has dreams and fantasies about a girl, they say, "yeah, whatever, it happens, it's familiar" but with Leah having similar dreams about a guy, suddenly their homophobia kicks in or something? And they're all really uncomfortable and it's all her fault. Dicks, the whole lot of them; I think they're just annoyed to have their "boy's club" interrupted by a couple x chromosomes.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Nov 16, 2010 13:05:18 GMT -8
I think Leah's infertility situation could have actually been interesting character development if it had been handled more gently and if we saw it more from Leah's point of view rather than from others gossiping about her.
For some women, infertility is a huge psychological obstacle, and they really do worry about some of these things-- am I still a woman, etc.?
The thing is, the correct answer should be "Of course you're still a woman!" and the correct result is building up her confidence again so she can see that she has far more value than just reproduction. These insecurities are just insecurities to be overcome, not truths about the woman and her situation.
Having it come out of Jacob's mouth instead, and particularly in such insensitive ways, makes it seem like Meyer intends it to be truth. It makes it seem like the series itself is judging Leah by her reproductive capacity rather than any of her other contributions.
Personally, I plan to adopt older foster kids and I have no desire to be pregnant, even though I could, so I don't really get the deep desire to give birth to a biological child, but I acknowledge that the desire exists for some people, and being unable to do so can be painful.
I don't think it's wrong to portray that in fiction... I just think the way it's treated in Twilight is very hurtful and insulting to women in general.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Nov 16, 2010 16:39:32 GMT -8
I know I've read books that had female characters dealing with infertility that handled it wonderfully. Yes, when a woman finds out she can't have kids it is not uncommon for them to wonder if they are still a "real" woman. But so long as it's handled with sensitivity than that question is not an unfair one. For many women one of their lifelong dreams is to have kids (I classify myself as one such woman) and to hear that they can't, well that can mess with their psyches and make them think "well, not what am I supposed to do?" When handled correctly it can be a very interesting topic that may speak to such women.
But obviously, because Stephenie Meyer has all the sensitivity of the cast of The Jersey Shore so that didn't happen.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 17:16:40 GMT -8
For that fanfic, I vote no for Leah getting with Sam. Partially because I sort of enjoyed Jake/Leah before he imprinted, and partially because I think Leah could just generally do better than any of those guys. She should leap into another series and find an actually decent guy.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Nov 16, 2010 18:40:25 GMT -8
Leah, the only character on these books I gave a damn.
Back in the old forum, I listed the reasons why Leah was so bitter and angry and if I were in her shoes, god knows I would be ready to cut a bitch.
Leah had the worst had dealt to, and for some reason the Twilight fans are unable to understand that anger and I can imagen that Leah is terribly lonely with no one to talk to.
blenderbender: The fic is yours to write, but if you're keeping scores, I say Leah can do better than Sam.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Nov 18, 2010 20:26:50 GMT -8
Yeah, the most hilarious part is that Leah is such a bitter harpy for thinking mean thoughts about the man who left her for her sister, but Bella is a total peach when she describes her classmates as "chess club nerds" and "golden retrievers" and says that they are "nattering her nerves" (which isn't what nattering means FYI) because they are...nice to the new kid?
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Post by reniefuwa on Nov 18, 2010 20:38:44 GMT -8
"I don't like double standards."-Bella Swan. ;D She's like an ironic comedian or something, except she doesn't even realize it.
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