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Post by Penny Royals on Sept 7, 2013 15:50:58 GMT -8
He wasn't accusing the Emmeos of BEING evil. I can see how it sounds like it, but it's not like that - he's saying Emmeos is being cast into the ROLE of villain.
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Post by arcanius on Sept 7, 2013 15:55:21 GMT -8
Being cast in the role of a dark power without really being a villain is the point of Rhun actually
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Post by JW% on Sept 7, 2013 16:22:12 GMT -8
You'll notice that the goddess of destiny is considered one of the heroines of the story, and thus defying her is basically setting yourself up for failure and to be portrayed as evil and ineffectual.
Personally, I see the Emmeos as the heroes of the story, if only because they want to PROTECT what has been created, while the Ennead, being chaos and possibly attention deficit, just create... and then destroy.
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Post by arcanius on Sept 7, 2013 16:38:20 GMT -8
The defiance of fate has greater possibilities for good than you'd think. Really, I made this one just because fate is my most disliked force in all fantasy, "It's set this way so it will happen no matter you like it or not", Rhun will be like "If things are already set to happen no matter what - is there any point to give a crap. Take the chance given by the Defier of Destiny, choose your own path instead." So yeah, Rhun will definately hate to set things in just "Fate".
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Post by Alkonost Storm on Sept 7, 2013 16:41:41 GMT -8
As the situation stands, there's currently no heroes in MdE. There are no heroes because the setting for the heroic epics and legends is still in the process of creation. How can there be heroes when the world is still being made?
As I saw it, eventually there would have been a chance for gods of either side to stand out in some way by their actions, actions that would end up benefiting all or screw them all over respectively. In addition, I would have also allowed for mortal champions to be created so that they, by the gods' incentive, seize the chance to become heroic themselves if not seeking it out on their own, kinda like in Greek mythos.
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Post by JW% on Sept 7, 2013 17:19:18 GMT -8
Actually, since the set up gave us Aghnerax the Ender, who was clearly set as a villain(as can be seen by his defeat), we apparently DO have heroes.
The problem is, are the heroes the ones who put aside past differences and swept in to save their former foes and defeat Aghnerax(at cost to themselves), OR are the heroes the ones who recognized that one of their own had turned against them and fought against his destructive tendencies, feeling responsible and doing the right thing for once in their leisurely and carefree life?
Can't tell.
So we take a look at the aftermath that we DO know: the Enneads actively sabotaged the prison constructed for Aghnerax. They it an imperfect shape, seas and mountains.
However, most of the perspective is being written from the Enneads so far. Aequin's personal opinion of himself is low, but he's made friends with the cute Ennead girls, even if his Father would never approve.
Which, by the way, Sollagrin would not approve of. My post, which had to be removed, was him threatening to wipe the slate clean and try to fix all the imperfections that would eventually let Aghnerax out again. A villains stance(since it would spoil the others 'fun' and would stop the storyline from continuing), even if it's a logical one(I was open to him being talked out of it, if anyone could come up with a good reason why they should give Aghnerax such leniency, but was told to just remove the post so such complications as logical character interactions wouldn't arise).
Additionally, the Enneads have been creating for the joy of art and fun, letting their creations run wild. A heroic motivation by appearances. Rhun was creating servants to attend to his whims. A villainous motivation by appearance.
So, while the Goddess of Fate I don't think has even actually made an appearance yet, she is so far being set up to be the heroine. Rhun's attitude as you describe him is a destructive one. "So what if there's a plan to make other happy/better/safe? I just want to destroy it! Who cares about all the hard work everyone else is putting into it?"
To be honest, the Emmeos don't really have a place in the story thus far. They're meant to be the defenders of civilization, which(from the perspective of the mortals) is pretty darn heroic. Giving the world love and enlightenment and industry and fun(interestingly both pantheons have a god of War). Rhun could easily be a hero, helping humanity around the worst parts of what fate has intended for them, using his secret wisdom to find loopholes and work around what fate has decreed. But at the moment there is no humanity, nobody to defend, and thus all you can do is bully the gods who are trying to make something. Which casts you in a pretty bad light for when humanity DOES arise.
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Post by arcanius on Sept 7, 2013 23:21:51 GMT -8
I don't think it could go that simple, everything can be good or bad depending on your point of view. In reality every religion states that if you don't go with it - you go to hell. Due to the fact that there is no possible way to be of every religion - you go to hell anyway
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Post by JW% on Sept 8, 2013 13:33:20 GMT -8
But we're not dealing with religion. We're dealing with mythology. Stories, law of drama.
And given the setting thus far, I don't know how to remain true to the character of Sollagrin. He is meant to be father of all Emmeos, God of Light and Order, creator of civilization and teamwork, the founding principle of family and teamwork.
But there is as yet, no people to be granted civilization. That leaves him with just 'Order', a straight jacket placed on the friendly free spirits of the Ennead.
Straight jackets are not heroic. They're not the 'good guys' even when their job is to restrain the 'bad guys'.
The point of view is allowed, and in fact encouraged, to shift and change, but we have been given the point of view, so we have a clear indication of what is 'good' and what is 'bad' from the point of view we are witnessing things from.
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Post by arcanius on Sept 8, 2013 14:25:52 GMT -8
Gods are religion, no way to dodge this one really, myths are also mostly religion in one way or another. And I mentioned it as in "If this guy states THIS and this other guy states THAT, it doesn't matter who you support the one you don't will be pissed off".
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Post by JW% on Sept 8, 2013 15:34:21 GMT -8
Not quite true. Gods refers to a supreme being or pantheon, a creator force. Which is applicable to our characters. Religion on the other hand is a set of beliefs or practices. Not all religions have a god. Or a hell for that matter going back to your earlier comments, but that's not really applicable. So why can't we have a story of creators that doesn't have religion in it, at least not initially.
Oh, I'm not going to deny that there probably will be religion in the game. But the characters we currently have are not religious, and they haven't yet founded a religion(unless you count Rhun's spirit minions, nobody has even created any believers yet).
Emphasis here should probably be placed on the word 'yet' since it's pretty clear that there will be religion eventually. But at the moment we're not dealing with it. We're dealing with mythology, the stories that the religion will eventually come from.
We've already had one such story 'finish' with the temporary truce between Ennead and Emmeos that created the world around Aghnerax. The question is where to go from there. Some minor other creation tales were given either in a few posts or have started but not yet resolved themselves. Rhun creating his minions, Luonnetar giving birth, etc. But we don't seem to have any way to move from the aftermath of that story, into the next story. We're not even sure what the next story should be(creation of humanity, the joining of the two pantheons into one, perhaps both events tie in to one another?)
Heh, I had a bit of a thought about the pantheon of the fantasy world(that was never introduced) used in Universe being this pantheon(to help flesh out that world, as it feels that it's lack of setting was one of the reasons that one also died). Rhun as the god of wizards, Queis as a god for the blacksmiths, and so forth. But unfortunately I don't see it happening very well.
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Post by arcanius on Sept 9, 2013 0:39:30 GMT -8
I'd dare to argue with a little with some of that, but anyhow we're here for a different reason. And personaly I think it should be the creation of sun, stars, moon(The last one I could take care of) or something. The celestial bodies are usualy among the first
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Post by Alkonost Storm on Sept 9, 2013 16:04:42 GMT -8
I don't think it could go that simple, everything can be good or bad depending on your point of view. In reality every religion states that if you don't go with it - you go to hell. Due to the fact that there is no possible way to be of every religion - you go to hell anyway I'm sorry but I take serious issue with this statement as it is a gross over-generalization of religion in general.Not all religions are like that for starters: Hinduism, Buddhism, the Ancient Pagan beliefs...These do not penalize you for non-belief. I'm certain there's more I can name but they're not coming to mind at the moment. Also, I haven't heard any messages like that from the religion itself but rather from followers: namely the ones that are too gung-ho and tend towards extremist interpretations. And yes, like JW% said there will eventually be religion in this but it won't be the main focus; the main focus is MYTHOLOGY. As I envisioned it, this was meant to be a Mythology rp that could be influenced by established mythos yet still somehow do its own thing. In its scope, I envisioned something along the lines of works like the Kalevala, the Eddas, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the entire bulk of Classical Mythos... It's very likely it won't be as awesome as any of these works but that's beside the point. On some level, I am still gunning for this and really want to make it work but it's gonna take more brainstorming than I anticipated. Moving along from this, there's also something I have to bring up about Rhun. While I did approve him, it wasn't until you described him in more detail that he just felt really out of place. As things stand, you're rping with yourself which defeats the point of rp to begin with. I'm not saying he's a bad character but it couldn't hurt to try and have him come out of his shell. I'm not saying we need Social Butterfly!Rhun, only that we're not gonna get anywhere with his character if he keeps to himself all the time.
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Post by arcanius on Sept 13, 2013 5:37:06 GMT -8
^ Wow, I never realized this sounded like that, ofcourse every religion is different I'm not that stupid but still. I meant that because every religon states some things are right and some things are wrong you really can't be on good terms with every single one of them, the Nordic pantheon in which you butcher every enemy in your path to go to Vallhala, or the peaceful Early Christian that wouldn't dare to kill anyone. So really I just wanted to state that every religion has a different view.
Next on to second
Hey, it's just starting out, plus I still can't see any point in which to join the rest of you "social butterflies"
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Post by Penny Royals on Sept 13, 2013 5:38:41 GMT -8
And that's what makes it hard. We need something that's going to put as much of us together as is possible. :/
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Post by Alkonost Storm on Sept 13, 2013 6:30:48 GMT -8
And one other thing: at this point, save perhaps for Sollagrin, the Emmeos clan hasn't really found their godly niche, so to speak. The fact that you wrote it as Rhun knowing his Godly Niche from the beginning out of all them makes it really jarring.
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Post by arcanius on Sept 13, 2013 6:49:21 GMT -8
^ I have known what I want to do all my conscious life(Namely learn and discover, thats been my goal for my entire life - knowledge, and don't blame me. And yes thats from where I got inspiration for this god)so why would this be hard for a god, and so far he's just a history god, the rest of the aspects I barely scratched. So worry not good folks of the roleplay
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Post by JW% on Sept 13, 2013 19:30:00 GMT -8
Sollagrin, aside from being an "All father" of his own pantheon, doesn't really know much of his place other than he prefers order over chaos. To a fanatical level.
Loa MAY have discovered his purpose, as he is god of knowledge and science(and we presume that scientific laws are already in play) and probably aided Sollagrin in constructing the prison used to trap Aghnerax(infact the CREATION of scientific laws might have been more of a trap than the sphere of rock).
Libera, Goddess of knowledge and history, probably not as fortunate as her 'older' brother and lover(seriously, they're listed as each others consorts AND as siblings. And I'm actually okay with that, all things considered). Words and literature have not yet been created, and there is no "History" in existence yet(at least none recorded by word, since as I said, we lack words and humanity to speak and write them).
Queis I wanted to say hasn't found his place yet. Injured in the battle against Aghnerax, he retreated to his foundry(or perhaps was carried back by his father) and is rebuilding his body. There's no industry yet, so even though that's what he's doing to himself(there also seems to be no medicine yet).
Veija Amai might not even have been born yet. Nor Rakaya(though since the gods just finished warring, it's possible that Rakaya had been created and had found their purpose, though wouldn't re-discover it until mortal strife begins). Nor Vege Tyrtac having been born I bet(can't have "excess" when all you have is nothing).
Catalin Absint I'd like to say helped in the battle with Aghnerax by providing a distraction long enough for Sollagrin, Loa, possibly Rhun(was he around during the battle? Did he just 'sit it out'? Or was he just born, possibly from a celebratory union between Loa and Libera?) and whatever Enneads were present could spring their trap. Thus was born the first entertainment, and she is lucky she survived.
Aequin has apparently just been born(possibly as a side effect of the trap), though he apparently hasn't found his place and is still very weak(he couldn't even look on his father without injuring himself). He clearly knows little of the Enneads or the recent battle with Aghnerax.
And on the flip side of things:
Veng'chenwl' would like to claim responsiblity for corrupting the prison of Aghnerax. He's been around awhile, and is probably holds a strong grudge against the Emmeos. He is not, however, as violent as his brother Aghnerax, and does not support the Enders efforts, though he probably didn't fight against it all that hard(which might be why Luonnetar called in the Emmeos: They would actually stand up against Aghnerax and fight. You'll note that it's the Emmeos who seem to have suffered from the battle, with Queis being injured. The Enneads seem far too laid back for the event to have given them any trauma).
Sollagrin would likely wish to attempt to correct Veng'chenwl's behavior, but that's not going to get him anywhere.
Unfortunately, adding any of this to the IC is either playing someone elses character OR having my characters(IE Sollagrin) actively spoiling other player characters fun.
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Post by Alkonost Storm on Sept 13, 2013 19:34:03 GMT -8
And that's why I'm gonna try for a reboot of this. It's too awesome a premise to let go of and obviously needs more planning than I estimated. But then, I should have realized this when I tried to start an rp where we make a mythos.
Somehow, we'll make it work guys.
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Post by Fiery Firefly on Sept 13, 2013 21:35:35 GMT -8
Okay I kinda forgot about this RP, I'm sorry. ._.
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lovely corte
Persistent Member
Lindsey Looseflaps
HE LOOKED AT ME! HE LOOKED RIGHT AT ME!
Posts: 1,402
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Post by lovely corte on Sept 14, 2013 7:13:14 GMT -8
I've been sort of out of it because Verge isn't really relevant until Mankind is present, but it'd be a shame for this RP to die, especially this early on.
It's a really cool idea and it would be badass as fuck to see it to completion.
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Post by JW% on Sept 28, 2013 22:40:16 GMT -8
After a good bit of brainstorming it was decided that Sollagrin should be removed. Any myths that involved him previously need to be reworked, any actions he's taken have been nullified, and any children he had(all of the Emmeos) no longer exist(the players of those characters can come up with new ways their character was born).
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