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Post by Prime Spinosaur on Dec 16, 2010 17:24:55 GMT -8
This has been bothering me for a long while now. What do you think on the subject of "Harry Potter promoting Satanic Worship" as some Christians believe?
I personally could bitch all day about how stupid the idea is.
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samedi
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Post by samedi on Dec 16, 2010 17:31:46 GMT -8
Saw a link to a site somewhere here. Probably in the Vent Station. That article hit me right where I live. If you have any conscience, you will throw everything written be J.K Rowling on a bonfire.
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Post by Prime Spinosaur on Dec 16, 2010 17:37:37 GMT -8
Could you care to explain more in detail? I'm not going to blow you off, I'll hear out what you have to say.
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samedi
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Post by samedi on Dec 16, 2010 17:41:47 GMT -8
I take it you are pro-Lucifer, then?
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Post by Prime Spinosaur on Dec 16, 2010 17:43:24 GMT -8
No, I'm agnostic. I have morals. Not to offend anyone who DOES worship Lucifer. Who you worship is up to your own free will.
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samedi
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Post by samedi on Dec 16, 2010 17:48:02 GMT -8
Indeed. Indeed. As long as said object of worship is not the Prince of Darkness. But that isn't really the issue here. Harry Potter advocating witchcraft is.
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Post by Spectraitor on Dec 16, 2010 17:51:17 GMT -8
......
Samedi. R U SRS or Are you serious?
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Post by Prime Spinosaur on Dec 16, 2010 17:52:07 GMT -8
As in the power of love that protected a child from being murdering by a psychopath?
As far as I've seen in the books, the closest to the Biblical definition of Witchcraft the books get to is when the VILLAINS are using it, and that's both in the Goblet of Fire when Wormtail resurrects Voldemort, and the Horcruxes.
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Post by Spectraitor on Dec 16, 2010 17:54:46 GMT -8
Oh and I actually don't know much about this topic so any further information would prove illuminating. Articles etc.
Though I will admit to being slightly confused by what and how and why one arrives to such conclusions.
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Post by Prime Spinosaur on Dec 16, 2010 17:56:19 GMT -8
That's what I've been trying to find out too, Anti, how people come to this conclusion that a story about a Boy who uses love to fight against a lord of evil and darkness promotes Witchcraft and Satanists...
Again, I'm sorry if this offends anyone.
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samedi
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Post by samedi on Dec 16, 2010 18:05:42 GMT -8
Rather than engage in a fruitless discussion, I will point you to two respectable articles on the matter. Good day plz. @anti: This is as serious as it gets.
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Post by Prime Spinosaur on Dec 16, 2010 18:10:21 GMT -8
Thank you Samedi, I'll take a look at them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2010 18:26:58 GMT -8
Technically, I suppose it does promote witchcraft. It does not need to burned however. If children convert to paganism, so be it.
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Post by Salad Of The Dead on Dec 16, 2010 18:30:42 GMT -8
In my opinion, Harry Potter is not advocating witchcraft. And the person that told me I should read it was a Christian. Which this "OH Christians should NEVER read it cause it promotes it" Makes me laugh inside. I have respect for another persons religion. It is just books. A form of entertainment to keep one preoccupied with their time. I had a friend that would sneak my novels into her house cause her mother ripped apart her books, that she bought with her own money, which I found straight out rude.
Anyone that seriously thinks this promotes kids to "Use Spells" Makes me face palm. I'm pretty sure if I pointed a stick at someone and said "AVADA KADAVERA!" That they won't peel over and choke. Not unless I shove the stick down their throats. << >> But that is besides the point. I'm sure people who disagree with me will tear my comment apart. But I hold my ground with this.
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Post by vampirekites on Dec 16, 2010 18:31:05 GMT -8
Since there is a section for Harry Potter topics, I'll move this thread there (Fantasy section of Literary Discussions). Carry On.
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Post by Spectraitor on Dec 16, 2010 18:38:51 GMT -8
Much obliged Samedi.
I've read a little ways into the articles (which basically means that I'm not quite all that comfortable with saying anything just yet) but there is one thing. They are books, and books are important for shaping society.
But it seems perhaps a little shallow to take the themes of magick and promote that instead of the deeper re-occurring ideas of friendship, courage and all those other things I'm forgetting to name. *continues reading*
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Post by Prime Spinosaur on Dec 16, 2010 18:42:22 GMT -8
Thank you, and I think Salad touched a lot of the basis.
Harry Potter is a fantasy book, much akin to that of Narnia, Tolkien's mythos and such. I honestly think that people take works of fiction too seriously, thinking people are trying to write their own bibles. The only time I fear for stuff like this is when actual dangerous cults based on books start showing up and the Author in later writings not only approves of this, but promotes them.
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Post by Lady Phoenix on Dec 16, 2010 19:07:20 GMT -8
Harry Potter promotes love and compassion, a very Christian theme on the book.
Lily Potter sacrificed her own life to protect her newborn son, and her love became a shield that protected Harry from Voldemort's touch till the 4th novel.
Harry ALWAYS relies on his friends to help him reach his goals and appreciates their help very much.
And his friends and loved ones are what prevented Voldy from completely taking over Harry Potter in the 5th novel.
In fact, I think that's exactly how Harry lives through the whole series is through love.
Those that claim Harry promotes Satanism because it uses witchcraft is full of bullocks. They need to read the books and take in the important messages, and it's not like they abuse magic (except the Death Eaters, who are obviously bad guys)
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samedi
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Post by samedi on Dec 16, 2010 19:24:15 GMT -8
HP is no fairy tale, but people can take it however they wish. It's understandable that christian (Or otherwise) parents feel some discomfort with the themes portrayed in the series, and it's all magnified by how big the franchise actually is.
Personally, I just laughed at the articles and went on to something else. I haven't seen anything in the HP community, besides the common, that is sinister or odd. Why hasn't anyone cracked down on the outright crazy violence between the Jedi/Sith churches? I think the world would be a better place if people took Tolkiens work to heart more than anyother work. Because we'd have magic and stuff.
Thank you.
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Post by Anya the Purple on Dec 16, 2010 20:44:39 GMT -8
I was talking to someone on ff.net one time who thought Harry Potter promoted Dark Magic, and pointed out all the stuff you guys have been saying. He replied... Hold on, let me find it…
...so that’s what they had to say. *shrug*
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Post by Admin on Dec 16, 2010 21:09:45 GMT -8
So they have a problem with Gandalf?
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Dec 16, 2010 22:55:50 GMT -8
Guys, be careful of Harry Potter. I mean it has some awful morals in it. Loyalty! Friendship! Equality! The Importance of Choices! The Power of Love! Fighting Bigotry! Standing Up For What Is Right Even When It's Hard And/Or Dangerous! Ok, serious face now, Harry Potter does not support the occult. None of the spells or enchantments they do in the series resemble that of the occult. There are no altars, no candles, no seances or communing with the dead (aside from the ghosts). Harry Potter no more supports the occult than Cinderella. Honestly, I think there are a lot of things parents should worry about their kids becoming immersed in but I don't think Harry Potter is one of them. The series is a well-crafted bildungsroman that is going to teach your kids a hell of a lot more than a video game. Or you know, a book series that glorifies abuse, pedophilia and stalking. Even if it is written by a Christian. EDIT: Ok, I just took a look at your links samedi, and I'm going to take a bit of offense at the second one where it says this: This is the exact opposite of what the books are about. Anyone who's actually read them would know that. Voldemort believes that the muggles (the "ordinary" people) and those of muggle descent are worth less than wizards and witches. And Voldemort is the bad guy. If I may quote from book 7, chapter twenty-two The Deathly Hallows: That sounds like very Christian morals, don't they? Of course, this is coming from someone who has only studied Christianity from an academic point of view, so feel free to correct me.
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Saeran
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Post by Saeran on Dec 16, 2010 23:11:40 GMT -8
My church in Dallas Texas was like that, they hated Harry Potter and said it was of the devil yet they loved Twilight....honestly I don't think I'll ever understand that.
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Post by Spectraitor on Dec 16, 2010 23:24:29 GMT -8
Your church- I DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT LOGIC
I lol'd at "your samedi" dx Might pick a few choice bits out of said articles later.
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Post by Lovely Kiss on Dec 17, 2010 0:21:09 GMT -8
Harry Potter doesn't support the occult. Just because magic is in it, doesn't mean it's evil.
And who is so hypocritical enough to hate HP but love Twilight based on "occults?" I guess they all forgot vampires are followers of Satan. Soulless underworlders, and it's got an occult following of teenage girls wanting to find their "Edward" and wanting to die. [becoming a vampire]
But it's alright because the vampires sparkle in the sun and...well no other reason why it shouldn't be condemned, even Bella says she doesn't give two craps about going to heaven as long as she can die and be a vampire. Yeah, that's really okay for kids of the Christian families to read, but not Harry Potter at all.
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PRINCESS TROLLESTIA
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Post by PRINCESS TROLLESTIA on Dec 17, 2010 7:31:47 GMT -8
Rather than engage in a fruitless discussion, I will point you to two respectable articles on the matter. Good day plz. @anti: This is as serious as it gets. These are both incredibly biased sources - I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but fuck it, you now have a warning for it. Don't post crap like this again.
And coming from someone who does know at least a little bit about allegory and neo-paganism, HP has never promoted "witchcraft" in a pagan sense, and is rife with Christian allegory. Not to the degree that the Chronicles of Narnia was, but it's still pretty damn obvious, had you read through the books.
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Post by Anya the Purple on Dec 17, 2010 20:37:40 GMT -8
So they have a problem with Gandalf?
I don't think so; they say they're a LOTR fan, and I don't think you can be a LOTR fan if you think Gandalf is evil. As I said before, that's just what they said-copied/pasted and all. So make of it what you will.
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samedi
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Post by samedi on Dec 17, 2010 20:56:13 GMT -8
I read the articles in question a few months ago - linked from the old TS forum. I assumed it was fake. And joking about the morals of a children's story aside, since when has posting a link to a "biased" artice/site ever warranted "nexttimewe'llcometoyourfrontdoor" warning? That and joking?
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FlyingMintBunny
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Post by FlyingMintBunny on Dec 19, 2010 12:57:43 GMT -8
Wait, what? So just because it contains magic, it's promoting the occult and by extension Satanism? Woah. That's pretty much the whole fantasy genre screwed then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 16:08:44 GMT -8
Harry Potter encouraging witchcraft is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.
1. It's fiction. I don't normally excuse a book for that reason, because books still do have an impact on society. But in this case, it's fantastic fiction. It's like if you're kid turned round and said "I want to be a fawn!" It's not going to happen, and you both know it. So just let them hold toilet paper cylanders and pretend it's horns for a while till they grow out of it or find someone else to obess over. We let kids read super hero comic books, so how is that any different? In fact, Harry Potter is actually safer. A kid who wants to pretend they can fly and jumps off their swing is more likely to get hurt than if they were waving a wand around saying "EXPECTO PATRONUM!" I'd rather have them pretend to jelly legs jinx each other than run around with toy guns, that's for sure.
2. It's pretty obvious if you actually read the fucking books, that they discourage using dark magic. Voldemort ends up looking like a half-made Madame Tussauds wax figure for practicing dark magic. His followers are punished by being sent to a prison where they're forced to live their most unhappiest memories till they die. And Horcruxes! 'Nuff said about horcruxes.
3. As other people have said, the books have messages that any GOOD christian believes in. Love, friendship, acceptance. Lupin and Hagrid get discriminated against for being a werewolf and half-giant, respectively - but do the "good" characters care? No. They accept them the way they are. Harry's parents loved him so much they sacraficed themself for him. Lily was given the chance to step away, and she didn't. Hey, isn't that sticking to yours gun no matter what other people tell you. As in, what christians think they're doing when atheists question their beliefs? Seriously, I could make many more of those parelles.
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