Vampirism as a virus?

[makoeyes]

First off I want to say this isn't a way to make vampires into science fiction. This is still magic, it's just that my ideas are for a magical disease.

In my stories, the process for becoming a vampire is that first a person has to get fresh vampire saliva directly into the bloodstream, usually meaning a person is bitten but the key is the trasfer of saliva. Then a person has to drink enough vampire blood, which causes what looks like death, and for the process to be complete a person has to be buried or put underground.

Vampires used to be thought of as creatures of death and disease and I wanted to pay homage to that by technically making it a virus. The virus is a what I think is called a Lysogenic virus, which (I'm pretty sure) is a virus that lies dormant in a person until a catalyst happens. In this case, the catalyst is vampire blood. This is sufficient enough to kill a person and (this is where the most blatantly magical aspect comes in) to bring them into Unlife they have to go into the Earth. This last part is also why vampires are barred by running water.

I know this obviously won't make sense from a Muggle standpoint, but with magic would this make sense? Is Lysogenic the right word? The part about the Earth is to complete the picture of "death" and to pay homage to the more old fashioned views. Would all this still be called a "virus?" Or does it act very unlike a virus is supposed to act?

[JW%]

You could just as easily go with it being a demonic possession. Or leave it unexplained, since you're mixing magic and science and a simple viewer, or even the characters exposed to the process, aren't going to be aware of a combination virus/magical curse working on them. As a narrator only bit of exposition, unless it has a plot related point(IE being able to cure vampirism through means that would cure a virus) it might be best to leave it unspoken.

As for how a virus works... ugh... you're getting high school biology knowledge from me here, but point one: Yes certain viruses can infect a host and not show any signs until a catalyst triggers them, and point two: I'm not sure Lysogenic is the word you're looking for. I'm not sure why it seems wrong though(a quick look up shows the word to mean "harboring of a virus or bacteria without harming of the host), and may just be my mistake.

Oh, and would a vampire have to carry two different virii in it's body for this to work? One in the saliva, and a second catalyst in their blood?

The point I have the hardest bit with is that of the "go into the Earth". That seems to make this a very odd case: It's a virus, which can be considered natural and nonmagical, that has a magical trigger. If you're going to go that route, I found it easier to blame it on demonic influences. The virus either evolved to infect demons(who live in a realm that uses a different set of rules so "magical virus" would make more sense) or it was specifically genetically engineered by demons, their reasoning: You can break a curse and you can cure a disease, but a disease that carries a curse can have it's two halves reinforce each other against being exorcised from a victim.


Also, while on the subject, personally, I like the idea that a vampire gains a strong telepathic or energy sense. Because of this they can sense the flow of energy in geographic features. Their crypts will often be designed as mazes(or at least indirect routes) to scatter the qi through feng shui. Their coffin will usually be in the middle of a room rather than off to the side, etc to make themselves comfortable without being overwhelmed by the energy flows. Running water, in any notable quantities, would have a strong energy flow, meaning a vampire would see it not just as a wall, but as a wall that will drag them along with it if they attempt to cross. Additionally, sunlight being energy that is , would drive a vampire crazy with overload, forcing them to take shelter, preferably under dense(damp) soil and/or rock. If not deep enough, the vampire's mind/body may be forced to shut down during daylight hours, even if they aren't being directly contacted by sunlight. Suitable insulation(within their coffin packed with native soil) and study of the tides, or distance from MOVING water(a deep or wide lake the vampire should have no problem with, it's "running" water like a bridge over a river, that blocks them) would allow a vampire to cross such barriers, as seen in Dracula, but the vampire would be painfully aware of a world(that holds dangers to them) most humans don't even register.

Just some thoughts. I know it's still magic, but it's an attempt to rationally explain the magic.

[makoeyes]

It actually is caused by demons. The vampires and therianthropes/weres share the same ancestor. Their father was the Biblical Cain and the one who became a vampire was infected with a disease (yes an STD) by the demon Queen Lilith, so yeah it was caused by demons.
It's not really that blood and saliva carry two different types of viruses (the virus is only carried in saliva) but rather it's the "condition" that's necessary to turn a person. Normally vampire blood causes rapid cellular regeneration when ingested by a human, but when the person has been infected it changes them.
As for a cure, that's only possible if they haven't killed their first victim yet.
I know that a virus' purpose is to reproduce, and maybe that could (in a way) be the reason why the virus alters people, since they'll be able to infect more people. I know it's not very medical, but unlike SMeyer, mine aren't based off of "science" but rather it's magic.

As for the running water part, I've made that a characteristic of all "Undead creatures of the Earth." This is the significance of the many rivers in the Greek Underworld, or why the Egyptians buried the dead on the opposite side of the river. With vampires, they're considered Earth creatures as they have to dig themselves up out of their graves. It's only a hard and fast rule (and there are ways around it) for fledglings (less than a hundred years old) but for older ones doing so is still extremely unpleasant, to the extent that most still won't cross unless it is a dire circumstance. Feng Shui never really entered into what I ahve planned for my series, though I imagine a Chinese influenced wizard could use something similar to it.

As for telepathy, that is one of the vampires' powers.

[JW%]

Demonic STD. Yeah, I like that one.

Though I'd like to repeat myself that unless you have a character who studies this kind of thing, or have a particular plot related point about it, the combination of natural disease and magic may serve only to confuse a reader when it's mentioned in an offhanded manner.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "earth creatures". Could you expand on that?

And I came up with the Feng Shui thing because I was trying to have a narrator vampire, who didn't believe in "magic" per say, explain why all these traditional things really did effect him(And would you kindly stop using them on me because I HAVE figured out ways around them, they're just lots of trouble). The idea that geographic energy flows can stop anything with suitable spiritual connections(be it a ghost or some other risen dead, including a vampire) seemed to work for me.

Oh, nice touch. I usually use Zoanthropes but using Therion, the word for Beast rather than the word for Animal is a nice bit of latin.

[makoeyes]

Well there are two characters I have planned that could explain it if they're pressed into it. One is a female vampire named Arina and I could possibly have her explain that to her human boyfriend. The other is a witch who's supposed to be the main character of the series, and he likes to analyze things and understand things.

By "earth creatures" I mean creatures of the "element" of Earth (like Metal, Tree, Water, Air, etc.). Vampires roughly qualify as "Earth creatures" because they must dig their way up out of the grave and in fact being put in their coffin or being buried speeds up their healing process (this is also why even though vampires can fly the sensation is terrifying and unpleasant to them, whereas most creatures feel joy and freedom when flying).
Other Undead "Earth creatures" would be most ghosts because their remains are buried in the ground (this is why the Egyptians buried the dead on the opposite side of the Nile, because whatever ghosts that showed up in the tombs wouldn't be able to cross the river). Does all this make sense?

That would be kind of funny for a vampire to not believe in magic, at least in my world. It would be like the "flat earth atheists" from Discworld who deny the existence of gods even though the gods like to throw lightning bolts through their windows.

I just went with Wikipedia's word for it. Therianthropes/werebeasts.

[JW%]

Would a vampire even know all this? I mean, I could understand them knowing the history of it all, but even ancient vampires wouldn't be aware of bacteria and virus back during ancient Egyptian times(or whenever), and it's questionable that modern vampires studying themselves would publish such information readily. I suppose the witch could do the explainations, presumably being the main narrator as well as both studied in science and magic.

I'm still not quite following on the "Element" thing... wouldn't that also make humans Earth creatures as well? What would be an example of a "Metal Creature"? What are all the elements for that matter? Alchemically there's only Fire, Water, Air, Earth(you list "Metal" and "Tree"). Wu Xing lists off Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water(no "Air"). I Ching has Heaven, Thunder, Water, Mountain, Earth, Wind, Flame, Swamp(no "Metal"). So what system are you using?

The reason I put "magic" in quotation marks is because it's a question of semantics. He doesn't believe anything he can understand(or learn to understand) qualifies as magic. As a rather old immortal who's studied these things, and could be considered an accomplished "wizard" that leaves a pretty large gap between what the reader thinks of as magic, and what the character thinks of as magic. Also gives me an excuse to have him explain the laws of the phenomenon that's happening, making him seem less powerful. Yes, he was able to hypnotically control the mind of that one person with just eye contact and a few words, but that person was willing, intentionally opened themselves up to the contact, it was night without any signal interference, and he had just 'eaten' so he had the energy to expend. Several scenes later when he's forced to hide from a hunter, it's pretty clear he couldn't have just used his mind control again.

Plus, he probably would join the "flat earth atheists" from Discoworld. Not denying the existence of gods, but rather denying that they deserve to hold the title if they're going to be throwing lightning bolts through his window at all hours of the night.

[makoeyes]

Yes some of them would know it. There are a lot of vampires in the world, so at least some of them are bound to want to know more about their "condition."

Oh I mix both the Western and Wu Xing system. Technically speaking the Four are used more by Western mages whereas people using Eastern flavors of magic typically use the Wu Xing system, though the Five Elements are a bit more complex and are about "phases."

Ah I see what you mean. Yeah depending on your definition, there really isn't any real "magic" that can't be understood through logic and rationality. Even most mages (especially wizards) believe that magic can be understood just like one can understand regular physics and biology.

That's actually one of the themes of the series. In my series, it's a Fantasy Kitchen Sink Most Myths Are True setting. All of the Old Pagan gods of yore once existed in our world but have since left this world for another one because with the advent of Christianity and Islam people ceased to worship them. One of the themes of the series is that old gods were corrupt and abused us mortals and are unworthy of worship. I know I mentioned Lilith earlier, who is a Judeo-Christian demon, but in my series they ALL exist within the same multiverse. It basically uses

SPOILER: Click to show

this concept

. When you brought up the idea of a "flat earth atheist" as a character who believes they're not worthy of worship, this actually applies to several characters, including one who is a Christian but still refers to the pagan gods as "false gods" and "immortal two-year-olds."

[JW%]

Some would, but the question was more if the characters in the scene would. The ones who have learned more about their condition, would they have published their findings for others to read and learn? Do they have some kind of racial/hive memory where one who has learned something will pass it on to a fledgling?

Okay, so you're using your own system of elements. There's also an African system of elements, but I'm not familiar with it (it includes ice as it's own element I think, representing all forms of coldness) so I didn't include it in the listing, and you don't seem to be using it anyway. And yes, the Wu Xing is about phases. Certain elements are destroyed by others, certain ones create others, the elemental balance a person is made up of shifts from moment to moment. I don't think there's any such thing as an "Earth Creature" in Wu Xing, since we're all creatures of the Earth. So I'm not sure how the Vampire being of the Earth element matters, or is anything but an arbitrary(though at least thought out) classification.

Magic, by most definitions, is an unexplained phenomenon. In this case it would have to be unexplainable. If 'magic' users can understand magic like regular physics and biology, then it simply is another branch of scientific discovery. Probably a somewhat 'softer' science, depending on how well understood it is and how easily it is to reproduce results(physics is pretty easy to reproduce certain results, biology isn't always, particularly when it comes to things like recessive genetic traits, psychology is even softer, and presumably magic softer still). Unless of course it's reasonably easy to understand and harness magic, in which case you might want to do a bit of restructuring of society with the inclusion of this magi-tek...

Besides, having a character that understands these things makes a useful literary vehicle.

Oh, and you brought up the "flat earth atheist". I just said my character doesn't believe in "magic" and describes his talents(and others talents) in a different way.

[makoeyes]

I never thought of a vampire publishing a book on her condition tbh. No, they don't pass on memories, but the scene I'm planning is that she's answering questions for her human lover.

The one with Ice sounds like a video game system of "elements."
There's not an "Earth creature" in Wu Xing but there are in Western occultism (golems and gnomes and the like). Yeah the whole thing about vampires being "of the Earth" is only technical and doesn't have very much effect on them.

Yeah technically "magic" IS simply another form of science, and there really are Muggle scientists who're fascinated by magic and attempt to pin it down just like with phsyics and chemistry, and then take it a step further by attempting to become wizards.
Actually to a certain extent some branches of magic are actually a precursor to Muggle science. That's what Alchemy was about in the real world.

[JW%]

I was thinking more like a scientific journal than a book... though a dusty manuscript handwritten from the dawn of the dark ages and passed down by the "Vampire High Council" or whatever works as well. "Here fledgling, we will read for you the knowledge gathered by our kind..."

In the scene where she's answering the questions for her human lover, the question would be how did she get the answers in the first place? The Anne Rice vampires and Underworld vampires have those crazy psionic powers so it's somewhat more understandable that they'd have figured these things out, but most settings this information isn't a background tidbit, it's a game changing plot point. Blade and Ultraviolet come to mind, where as soon as "Vampire" and "Virus" are linked, words like "Cure" start being used and words like "Magic"(even if there are clearly magical things happening) are dropped like it's radioactive.

Yeah, at least I didn't start noting my favorite "elements" collection, which is from a video game... of course by that point they're not elements in anything but name, they're just labels you place on your damage rolls and your hitpoint blocks.

Back to "Earth creatures"... I can understand a golem made of clay or stone being an Earth Creature, but one made of flesh? Wood? Metal? Still an "Earth Creature"? For that matter we don't know that much about gnomes in this setting... are they small fae in pointy red hats, or are they spirits that animate rocks, or something else? And if there's not any major effect, why is the label even in place?

Muggle scientists have a tendency to publish journals of their works. If muggles are fascinated by magic and are studying it as another branch of science, then that setting should have a reasonably magic savvy population, where 'break throughs' in magic happen every so often. Discoveries of things like more energy effective means of summoning doves from a felt hat...

Which will make any modern setting very trippy. Heck, it makes discworld just a little wacky...

Alchemy was not about magic that became real. It was about scientific study shrouded in superstition and false leads that made some people believe there was magic in what was actually just science yet to be understood.

"Any sufficiently advanced and reproducible magic is indistinguishable from science." (paraphrasing of Clarks Third Law). If your magic is going to be indistinguishable from science, you might want to look into nailing down the laws by which it operates on in far more detail than you would if you were just going to write it off as magic. Meyers attempted to make her stuff scientific without nailing down the rules... and... well... at best you could say it was unreliable narrator, but really it just came out stupid. Don't want yours falling into the same pitfall(which is surprisingly easy to drop off into)

[makoeyes]

Well actually until within the last century or so, Elders (1000 years old or more) usually stayed out of reach to most vampires, mostly existing as rumors and legends.

Yeah mine have a variety of nifty psychic powers, and they have lots of money too.

Well it doesn't actually have to be made of that element. Technically humans are "of the Earth and Water." That's technically why humans can walk and swim on their own but they can't fly without magic or technology.
Gnomes are not considered faeries, and they're Elementals, meaning they're MADE of solid Earth and magic, and they can move through the ground as easily as we move through the air.
Well the major effect is the weakness to running water.

Yeah mine has a lot of details on the way magic works, but that would be kind of getting off topic.