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Post by Too Funk to Druck{Truthiness} on Oct 29, 2010 16:08:41 GMT -8
Post about all of your Mary Sue woes here.
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Darth Pichu
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Post by Darth Pichu on Oct 30, 2010 15:40:03 GMT -8
Copypasta'd from the last topic. It seemed to help over there:
*If your character has a single generalized trait, like being smart or pretty, and that one trait is the extent of your fears, it's not a Sue. (That includes, being a princess, having strangely colored hair, being a good hacker ect.) *If your character is a Self-Insert, but works well enough in universe that unless someone knew you very personally they wouldn't pick up, it's not a Sue. *If your character has several traits of a Mary Sue, but all are either played in a different way than most sue traits are played or justified by other things, it's probably not a sue. *If you have a character who's traits would score as a Sue in another situation, but who is considered a norm in your universe (Obviously your Vampire character isn't going to be considered a Sue just because he's immortal. Same goes for a healer mage with *gasp* healing powers. Also, don't even start on the whole 'being the best' at something trait. Someone has to be the best at something. Why can't one of your characters be that?) *If you have a laundry list of reasons or justifications as to why the character isn't a Sue (including justifying backstories, behavioral traits, ect.) Then you already know, don't you?
Usually if you look at your character hard enough, you should be able to tell if your character is or isn't a Mary Sue just by looking at the plot and the way your character interacts within it. That can tell you if you have a Sue much better than any of us can. Be honest with yourself, if you saw something like this being acted out, would you really be rooting for the main character, or would you just be annoyed? Do all of the scenes work, or are there some things that just seem overblown or unnecessary. Don't be afraid to be your own critic.
A couple of warning signs to look for and questions to ask:
*How many plot points revolve around my character? How many points revolve around other characters? *Do the characters powers make sense in the context of the story? A super powered fairy princess would make sense within a fantasy world largely populated by fairies and other magical beings. At a backwater Highschool however... *How much of your story is intended as a 'take that' at something, and how much of that 'take that' is delivered by your character? Some people really pull this off well, but even well developed characters can get tiring if they seem like they're a mouthpiece for something. *What kind of rules have you set up for your universe, how often are they bent and played with, and how much is this done for the sake of your character? If you've got a universe where the rules are constantly changing, having something warp occasionally to fit a characters needs should be expected (so long as they aren't ALWAYS in favor of your character). If you've got a tight boundary set, then breaking anything for any character should be a no-no.
And as a rule, just be true to yourself about this. Not every character you create is going to be the perfect, or even remotely close to that. Some of them will flop, others are going to shine. Worrying too much about being a Mary Sue a lot of times strangles out good characters, and makes people resort to swapping out traits, and getting so involved with the traits themselves that they lose track of the character. Don't be afraid to use a few Mary Sue traits. They really can be the spice that flavors the whole piece. Too much makes it guady, but if you're too timid your story is just going to be bland.
Tl;dr Don't be too worried about the dreaded Mary Sue. Most of the time, as long as you're mindful of her she's not going to bother you.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 15, 2010 15:11:45 GMT -8
Princess Eniola (later Queen Eniola) is very respected and loved by her subjects, and is considered wise by some, despite being very young when made Queen. Her circumstances have her starting off being very sheltered and largely unaware of the conditions of rebelling citizens outside the aritocracy. When she realizes the way they're treated, she tries to help, going as far as to marry a rebel leader she falls in love with them despite rules about social circles. However, she isn't perfect. She is not a good fighter. When she tries to fight, she doesn't do very well. She also worries about the people outside the aristocrats, a little too much. She spends almost all her time with, and worrying about them. This leads to her approval dropping among the aristocrats and their representatives on the Council. She also worries a lot about her husband, despite knowing he's fine. When he becomes depressed after a war ends, and spends a lot of time with his old friends, she becomes so preoccupied with him and her kids (she's pregnant with twins) that she doesn't pay enough attention to politics and she is toppled by a violent military coup that she ordinarily would have noticed forming. She then spends about 16 years watching one of her daughters grow up as the adopted by the new dictator, in disguise as a servant, and is seperated from her other daughters, her son (one girl and one boy born while she is incognito) and her husband most of the time. Even after this time, it takes 4 years of fighting and negotiating to get her throne back. After that, she has nearly no time for her kids and doesn't notice rifts between them and it leads to arguements, and she becomes estranged from her oldest daughter, and at a few points, Afton, her husband. She works hard to keep up with politics and her family and nearly burns out.
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PRINCESS TROLLESTIA
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Post by PRINCESS TROLLESTIA on Nov 15, 2010 17:04:54 GMT -8
*Deep breath* Okay blender, we're gonna do this. I'm gonna be as nice as I can, and we're gonna hold hands and go through this point by point.Princess Eniola (later Queen Eniola) is very respected and loved by her subjects, and is considered wise by some, despite being very young when made Queen. Okay so, characters ascending to the throne is shaky, but if you can write a convincing character, it won't be a problem. If you are unexperienced, it will be and it will show.
There is no way she would rule alone, young. She would have an advisor guiding her, and she would very well be slated to marry someone who could care for the throne. Look to Elizabeth the 1st. She had advisers and became monarch very young, but she was tenacious, refused to marry, and killed a lot of people to stay where she was. Realistically, this wouldn't work. Falling in love with him is one thing, giving her a good relationship despite him being a rebel against the crown is really played and very tired. This isn't much of a flaw at all. This honestly would be expected of her as royalty and wouldn't be a flaw but an accepted characteristic and outcome of her upbringing. She would also likely live in conflict with these people as well, because she's competition for power. You should probably brush up on how the government of the country she rules is formed. Is she running a constitutional monarchy? Absolute monarchy? What? Being a worrywort is also a very weak flaw. Why would she be depressed? After war, most people are happy, unless she's completely occupying herself with rebuilding her nation. Yeah, this wasn't thought out well. There are tell tale signs that she would have HAD to noticed as ruler. Even Marie Antoinette knew the revolution was at hand. Oh boy, you lost me. New dictatorships typically avoid leaving people from past reigns alive. For your character to have her family still entirely alive at this point, it's too easy and it doesn't do your character any favors. Yeah, 4 years to take back the throne through negotiation? You get there that fast through slitting throats left and right. So she gets the throne back and ignores her family for politics? But that's actually typical of royal upbringings - her children would have been raised by wet nurses, because she's a ruler. People would expect her to put the country first, and not her family, because there will always be people who can care for her family.
So here's a summary of your character's problems: - Royalty without acting as royalty. She's got it too easy as a princess and a queen, even through strife through what you've said is a bloody coup (but not really). -Shallow flaws. Not a good fighter, and being a worrywort don't cut it. You need to give her emotional flaws as a person. Is she prideful? Is she insecure? -Ridiculously easy love life. You kind of turned what should be an interesting and complicated relationship, that being true love triumphing over class and hate, and kind of just threw it at the reader. You just tell me that she falls in love and it's fact, rather than showing me how she feels about him - yes she loves him, but how much? In what ways? Most importantly, why? What qualities make her attracted to him and love him? What does this guy give her, that no one else has, and makes her love him, despite being the leader of a group that would likely kill her? You can't give her a perfect relationship that frays at the end. Considering your story, it should have been imperfect from the start.
Overall, you're more or less just telling me what happens to her, and not her complete history (if she's your protagonist, you need to know her past present, everything). For that matter, you don't speak much about her personality, or her emotions her feelings towards things, her education, how she evolves throughout the narrative, etc. You're breaking her down, bit by bit for the reader and not building her up as a person, which is what you should do.
Is your character a Mary Sue? In my opinion, yes. But she's fixable if you give her more depth and make her more realistic.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 15, 2010 19:32:57 GMT -8
*Deep breath* Okay blender, we're gonna do this. I'm gonna be as nice as I can, and we're gonna hold hands and go through this point by point. Okay. I kinda left out a lot of the plot that doesn't involve Eniola directly, so I'm going to try and point a few things out in a few bits. Princess Eniola (later Queen Eniola) is very respected and loved by her subjects, and is considered wise by some, despite being very young when made Queen. Okay so, characters ascending to the throne is shaky, but if you can write a convincing character, it won't be a problem. If you are unexperienced, it will be and it will show.
There is no way she would rule alone, young. She would have an advisor guiding her, and she would very well be slated to marry someone who could care for the throne. Look to Elizabeth the 1st. She had advisers and became monarch very young, but she was tenacious, refused to marry, and killed a lot of people to stay where she was. Okay, first thing I should've mentioned is that it is not set in history or in the laws we could expect here. The book where she debuts as Queen is the sequel and she's about 23. She does have her Council which helps advise her. When the plot starts up, she is extremely dependant on them. Realistically, this wouldn't work. Falling in love with him is one thing, giving her a good relationship despite him being a rebel against the crown is really played and very tired. Ok, this is the main bit that needs to be explained. I kinda left it vague to avoid spoilers, but at this point there isn't much to spoil as it is very much in progress. Her boyfriend was a rebel in the first book where she is a princess, and he is one of the rebels willing to negotiate with her mother and diplomats. In the second one, he is not a rebel anymore. The aristocrats only consider him one because he once fought them. This isn't much of a flaw at all. Well, this depends on the way it causes problems. It does get one of her friends killed and she pretty much goes unresponsive until the end. When she finally does start responding she starts getting paranoid over her friends, and husband, during the times they go into battle. This honestly would be expected of her as royalty and wouldn't be a flaw but an accepted characteristic and outcome of her upbringing. She would also likely live in conflict with these people as well, because she's competition for power. Yes, it would be, though you have to remember that she is so focused on her husbands side of the kingdom that she gives the bare minimum needed to aristocrats and their is a huge rise in crime and such. You should probably brush up on how the government of the country she rules is formed. Is she running a constitutional monarchy? Absolute monarchy? What? I will definitly look that up. Being a worrywort is also a very weak flaw. Yes, though again, it does cause plenty of problems for her, as she's so busy focusing on her worries that she doesn't notice things going on right in front of her. I guess her real problem is she can only focus on one thing at a time. Why would she be depressed? After war, most people are happy, unless she's completely occupying herself with rebuilding her nation. Okay, this one was a typo on my part. I meant to say her husband wasn't happy, because he lost plenty of friends and he's not totally sure that they hunted the extremist rebels to their roots. She is focused on rebuilding, and on him, but she is also relieved. Yeah, this wasn't thought out well. There are tell tale signs that she would have HAD to noticed as ruler. Even Marie Antoinette knew the revolution was at hand. Okay now things are getting choppy and messed up because I left a TON out to try and avoid spoilers. She did notice something was off, but due to her focus on other things, she left it to her investigators and tried not to worry about that a lot, partially due to her advisors saying she worried enough out already. Oh boy, you lost me. New dictatorships typically avoid leaving people from past reigns alive. For your character to have her family still entirely alive at this point, it's too easy and it doesn't do your character any favors.[/colors] Alright, since this comes from huge spoilers of the third, I'm gonna bring in spoiler tags Eniola givs birth in the Church she hid inside during the events of the first book. She requests the priest there say that she died. She puts tons of effort into her diguise as a servant, and has one of her friends in the aristocrats convince the new dictator to take her by telling him it's an orphan from the lower class for public relations, since adopting an orphan from the lower class would gain a lot of support. Eniola gets a job as a servant, and her husband and other daughter go into hiding. Eniola plans to start another rebellion.This happens in the as of yet undetailed 4th book, but there the only details I have right now are "rebels win", and "enemy countries may plot to take advantage of unstable reform situation." Yeah, 4 years to take back the throne through negotiation? You get there that fast through slitting throats left and right. Well, sort of. She spends 16 years helping the rebellion get to where it needs to be, and then there are a lot of battles, which she for the most part, is uninvolved in. The only real negotiation starts when the dictator is killed and they need to start peace talks. The battles and peace talks together took about 4 years. So she gets the throne back and ignores her family for politics? But that's actually typical of royal upbringings - her children would have been raised by wet nurses, because she's a ruler. People would expect her to put the country first, and not her family, because there will always be people who can care for her family. Pretty much. After she gets the throne back, their is huge reforms needed and negotiations to try to settle things with a few other countries, since the dictator was terrible with foreign relations. Her other two kids (born during her facade as a servant, about 10 at the time) are pretty much raised by the husband. He stays out of politics mostly because in the country, only the member born royal gets the ruling stuff. This leads to huge fights and one of her daughters (the one that went in hiding) pretty much hates her by the end of the series. Like I said, most of this is still in planning, though the majority of the old rebels are slaughtered. And so is her closest friend in the army, who is gunned down in front of her. Her closest advisor is killed as well. -I'm still developing Eniola, though I have a few flaws planned out: 1) No balance. She can only work on one thing at a time. If she's trying to do something political, she won't have any time for her family. If she's working on social reforms, it leaves her out of the here and now. 2) Impatient. She isn't happy to wait around, and if things take to long, she'll simply go and try to do it herself. Even if she's no good at it. 3) Distance. She tries not to get close to anybody because she's scared of becoming a corrupt queen who plays favourites, like her mother. After her husband's father is killed in front of her in the second book, quite brutally she gets even worse about this, out of fear she'll lose the people she does value. 4) Poor sense of humour. Okay, I admit this is a pretty bad flaw, and it's more a quirk, but it's one of my favourite quirks about her, and it adds to her love life when her lover manages to make her laugh, albeit unintentionally (he fell down the stairs, and was covered in the wine he was carrying) and he becomes delighted that he managed it, since it was a bit of a running gag through the book for him to try. 5) Naive about other classes. She doesn't understand much of the lifestyle that most people in the lower class live. This leads to huge issues in the first and second books where she's in diguise as a lower class woman.She also trusts what her advisors tell her without question, until she gets more experience. 6)Stubborn. She will not back off, even when it may be in her best interest to do so. She's also steadfastly loyal to most of the cultural traditions of her people, and it's hard to reform without harming them. This brings her to dead ends, and puts her into conflict with her husband and others who feel some of the traditions need change. 7)She's a workaholic who won't recognize her limits. She won't accept that she can't fix everything, and constantly works herself to burnout to try to finish things. This brings her into conflict with her husband, her kids (well, the ones that don't hate her anyways), and her advisors. This also leads her to feel guilty when something she plans (for instance, an ambush she and the other rebel leaders against the dictator planned) goes wrong, even if it's because of unpredictable circumstances. 8) Believes that the royals are above others. In the start, she is like this quite a bit. By the end of the second she has mostly lost this belief, but she does still carry herself as though she's higher then others. -The romance between her and her husband is stretched over the first two books. In the first, she does hate him when they meet. His father, who is one of the rebel leaders willing to negotiate a deal with Eniola's mother, orders him to make sure Eniola isn't killed by extremist rebels. They fight about everything, up until a bit I like to call "The Church Scene". He takes her to an old, mostly forgotten Church. The priest takes her in and lets them stay. Eniola gets restless fast, and the priest gives her a book of the Church's stories. She reads it and discusses it with her future husband, and they realize if they both find it interesting maybe they have more in common. By the end, they aren't crazy for each other but they don't get an urge to kill each other whenever they see each other. In the second, she is still a bit stuck up, though very willing to take Afton (her husbands) offer to keep her safe from extremists. They spend a few months going from safe house to safe house, and growing closer to each other in the process. By the end, they are in love, though the political help the marriage brings (unites the classes) doesn't hurt. They disagree about several things, but what couple doesn't? By the time where her daughter hates her though, they've spent long periods of time apart, she's occupied with other things, and they fight constantly. Overall, you're more or less just telling me what happens to her, and not her complete history (if she's your protagonist, you need to know her past present, everything). For that matter, you don't speak much about her personality, or her emotions her feelings towards things, her education, how she evolves throughout the narrative, etc. You're breaking her down, bit by bit for the reader and not building her up as a person, which is what you should do.
Is your character a Mary Sue? In my opinion, yes. But she's fixable if you give her more depth and make her more realistic. Alright, that one is my fault. I'm terrible at describing my characters by themselves, because I'm better at letting my story speak about them for itself. I'm going to flesh her out more in development, obviously, and maybe when I have more details on her, I can post back up here with a better sort of profile, rather then a summary of the series. Sorry if I seemed defensive. Like I said, she's largely still in progress, and I left out a lot because A) I'm horrible with things like profiles, and B) due to spoilers. I'll stick up a profile of her when I get her more fleshed out, that focuses more on her, not the events that happen to her.
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Post by smithkakarot on Nov 16, 2010 8:58:36 GMT -8
I was just wonderin' if "Rose" would be a Sue-ish name (she's named after AXEL Rose, just so ya know.)
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Tim Willard
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Post by Tim Willard on Nov 16, 2010 18:08:21 GMT -8
One thing that always makes me suspect "Sue-ism" is when the character supposedly has a mental illness and it's used to make them "quirky" rather than rehabilitating them.
"It doesn't matter that everyone loves her, everything always works out for her, and she skips through life with everything handed to her! She has bipolar! Tee hee!"
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Darth Pichu
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Post by Darth Pichu on Nov 16, 2010 19:28:36 GMT -8
I was just wonderin' if "Rose" would be a Sue-ish name (she's named after AXEL Rose, just so ya know.) Just the name? Honestly Rose is a pretty common name. Doesn't really stand out that much, unless you're writing about a place where only extra special people are named after.. flowers? I don't know. It doesn't matter who your character is supposed to be named after. It's still a common name. Pretty plain really. Good GOD I hate this SO MUCH! Seriously. Bipolar doesn't just mean you have a couple moodswings. It's a debilitating disorder that can really hurt people's relationships and lives. OCD too. I hate the way people just throw these terms around. OCD is when you have specific obssessive urges that you can't control until you preform a certain ritual. It's not just having something that bugs you, it is an uncontrollable urge that again really hampers people's lives. And no, mental illness does not make you quicky. Mental illness is not cool, it does not give your character justifications for their actions, it isn't quirky! So stop pretending it is! [/rant]
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Post by smithkakarot on Nov 16, 2010 19:34:01 GMT -8
Just the name? Honestly Rose is a pretty common name. Doesn't really stand out that much, unless you're writing about a place where only extra special people are named after.. flowers? I don't know. It doesn't matter who your character is supposed to be named after. It's still a common name. Pretty plain really. Alright. Just thought some people might see it as one of those "name reflects her beauty" things. And the MAIN character (this is a COMIC actually, so I dunno if this really fits here) is good-looking and has a katana and is really good at what he does...but being "good" at "what he does" gave him quite a bit of cockiness, which bites him in the ass later.
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Tim Willard
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Post by Tim Willard on Nov 16, 2010 20:05:19 GMT -8
And no, mental illness does not make you quicky. Mental illness is not cool, it does not give your character justifications for their actions, it isn't quirky! So stop pretending it is! [/rant] One of the more common things we're going to see beyond Bipolar in upcoming years in PTSD. We won't be seeing realistic PTSD, what we'll be seeing is the Post-Vietnam media distortion of it. More and more authors will be giving their characters PTSD and having them react violently to ALL situations, and using it to allow their characters to be abusive and abrasive jerks. Bet on it. ------------- I'll admit it, by book three of the series most of the characters have various forms of mental illness, and EVERY survivor has PTSD, but in the harsh new world of Year of the Zombie, PTSD isn't a mental illness, but a survival trait, just like it was back in the harsh dark days of almost forgotten history. Of course, because of these problems, there's spousal abuse, people getting hurt because someone's triggers got hit, emotional turmoil, and everything else. But I'm shooting for realistic mental disorders. Not to make them quirky or memorable, but saddling them with these disorders as a consequence of the steps they took to survive, and what they saw when they saw the elephant.
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Post by Maldeus on Nov 17, 2010 7:44:24 GMT -8
I'm rather fond of PTSD. It's the result of tragedy, and it leads to further tragedy. The gift that keeps on giving, for those observing the story, at least. A story I half-wrote (should probably finish it sometime...) involved several characters in a war zone, all of whom developed PTSD except for one. This one was seen as a monster early on, since he didn't seem to suffer any ill-effects from regularly killing other people, until one of the more empathetic characters points out that PTSD is at least as much a product of survival instinct as a reluctance to kill, and that the guy without PTSD therefore places as much value on his own life as those of his enemies.
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Tim Willard
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Post by Tim Willard on Nov 17, 2010 11:16:22 GMT -8
I'm rather fond of PTSD. It's the result of tragedy, and it leads to further tragedy. The gift that keeps on giving, for those observing the story, at least. A story I half-wrote (should probably finish it sometime...) involved several characters in a war zone, all of whom developed PTSD except for one. This one was seen as a monster early on, since he didn't seem to suffer any ill-effects from regularly killing other people, until one of the more empathetic characters points out that PTSD is at least as much a product of survival instinct as a reluctance to kill, and that the guy without PTSD therefore places as much value on his own life as those of his enemies. I like this. A lot of people nowadays seem to think that as soon as you have someone in your sights you automatically get PTSD, and anyone who doesn't get PTSD from killing another human is a monster. That's not true. Just because someone doesn't get PTSD from killing doesn't make them a monster, there's a ton of other reasons that they wouldn't. But, back on topic, another thing that drives me absolutely crazy is the amount of female Sue characters that are little more than bitchy caricatures. Rather than having any redeeming qualities, in order to "keep up with the boys" they act like they're PMSing, they're nasty in conversation, show know grace or civility, and are abusive toward everyone around them. And everyone loves them for it, and anyone who says "Hey, Rianna is a total bitch, and if she keeps cutting me down, we can't be friends" is villianized or told they need to get thicker skin. You can have a strong female character that isn't the poster child for female psychosis. But most Sues jump around one step shy of being a serial killer and everyone loves them.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Nov 17, 2010 14:15:44 GMT -8
^Oh my god, I hate Jerk Sues. Being strong doesn't equal being a snotty brat.
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Post by Maldeus on Nov 17, 2010 14:19:51 GMT -8
Except when the Sue is a serial killer and everyone loves them.
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Post by Darth Sariah on Nov 17, 2010 17:08:35 GMT -8
Except when the Sue is a serial killer and everyone loves them. *cough*
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 19:35:24 GMT -8
Okay, I'll give it a shot.
Protagonist (let's call him... Cheshire) is a sheltered, naive, trusting punk who's lived his entire nineteen years in an underground security complex/commune with a population of roughly 100 people. He's held in low regard- mainly for being unwilling to do as he's said to the letter, being too vocal about the despotic authority, pursuing other interests than the ones he's assigned, and generally being an unlikable ass. He holds respect for a select few, namely his father.
Fast forward. Cheshire finds himself alone on the surface due to a violent coup (instigated by his father's escape), in a harsh, zero-humidity wasteland. Talking 120 degrees Fahrenheit during the day, subzero at night on the suckier days. Sandstorms of nuclear ash, lightning storms without rain, a thinned atmosphere of choking air, deranged mutated apex-predator wildlife.
Cheshire, now confused, afraid, suffering from extreme culture shock and disillusionment, runs his ass to the local settlement, looking for help in finding his father. With little to offer but stolen security equipment, he offers to take small jobs in exchange for help, but few are willing.
One smuggler/criminal/mercenary, Jericho, accepts his offer. The two begin their misadventures in violence in the wasteland, Jericho trying to reclaim his past sensations of self-worth, excitement and pride, Cheshire to understand the surface world better and shed the lies that had been ingrained in his head.
Jericho trains Cheshire to the best of his ability, but they make little progress as Cheshire still struggles to understand the kill-or-be-killed us-or-them fuck-everyone mentality require to thrive in the wasteland. Nine months after their joining of forces, Jericho dies in combat, sacrificing himself for Cheshire- or dying the warrior's death he always wanted.
Cheshire then barely scrapes on through the wasteland, over the course of four months, getting shot at, captured, imprisoned, tortured, and fighting his way towards his father- and more importantly, a better reason to live.
He's pretty good with electronics and mechanical things, a decent shot even at distance, reasonably tall and well built. Missing an ear, squinty eye, and a permanent slight limp due to combat injuries. Has almost no social ability on the surface. Doesn't enjoy killing, but doesn't effect him much anymore. Still has trouble coping with the cruelty and viciousness of the surface society.
So... how is he?
...
Would you rather have a link to the story/.
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Post by queencherryfairy on Nov 19, 2010 21:43:25 GMT -8
Cheshire ceased to be Stu potential when you admitted that people disliked because he was an ass. If he were a Stu, you would've tried to portray the other people as big meanie faces who hated poor Cheshire for no cause whatsoever.
Also, the fact that he has a lot of obstacles he must overcome and doesn't have the best of social abilities makes him nowhere near Gary Stu material.
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Post by kendobunny on Dec 11, 2010 20:50:12 GMT -8
Since I probably overworry about Sue-ing my characters:
Lead female in a speculative science fiction novel (speculative being defined as taking place in a possible future of Earth). Ammiel is the third grandchild of the current head of the Earth Empire-thing (which is technically in charge of a large chunk of the galaxy). The leader's children were not good leadership material, and one actually abdicated, so the family line depends on the grandchildren. However, her two older cousins died before having children, her grandfather hates her younger cousin, and she is morally opposed to the corruption of the government. She doesn't feel right about taking control, because she sees the corruption as ingrained, and only complete overthrow can make it any better... but for a single monarch to dissolve the government in one fell swoop would leave only chaos, and gradual dismantling would not work much better. She is also in love with her non-human bodyguard, and sees the decadence of the court as reprehensible. At the beginning of the story, she elopes with her bodyguard (even though humans and non-humans have to be granted special permission to marry inside Sol territory).
Her major flaw is that she lacks the courage of her convictions. Fixing anything would take her entire life, and the life of her successor, and so on. She sees the task as insurmountable, and gives up before she starts. Her husband loves her deeply, but her wavering between what is right and what is easy drives him off - he goes to work in an anti-empire rebel faction, while she stays behind. When he is captured and her grandfather attempts to use him as leverage to install her as a powerless puppet leader, as opposed to her charismatic and dangerous cousin, she has to overcome her cowardice and her insecurity both for the man she loves, for the sake of the galaxy, but most of all because she is the only one who can do it.
Her grandfather is overly concerned with the notions of blood, and so will not name another heir, and he sees her as being weak-willed and easily manipulated, and he intends to force her into bearing at least one child, whom he intends to raise himself as a younger version of himself, to keep accruing power, and keep it in the bloodline.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 6:52:17 GMT -8
I hope that you can tell me whether my character is a Stu or not...
So Budi Hermawan is a young Indonesian man who faces the woes of being gay, Christian albeit borderline atheist, and of Chinese descendant in a homophobic country where there are lots of attacks on minorities (mostly on Christians and Chinese people). He thinks that he is plain-looking, although a few really nice girls has confessed their love for him. He is nice, but that is because he knows what it feels to be different than other people. This far, he's kind of similar to Bella in some aspects, so I'm kind of worried. Living on the outskirts of Jakarta, he lived a nice life where he doesn't have to go so far to get to things, while still living in a peaceful and nice place suitable for a growing kid. He has never thought that he is any different than any other boys. He thought that girls are icky and likes to play ball just like the others. That is until he met a boy who goes into a Sunday school next to his house and grew into best-buds. Eventually, he fell in love with him. Well, basically, his life came spiraling down after he realized how different he actually is. He's got good grades and studies very hard, but that's because he's scared that people will be disappointed with him when the society already thinks that 'people like him' are trash. He was really obnoxious and active as a little boy. Much of a snob too. But then when he realized that he is gay, he kind of covered all his flaws behind the mask of a perfect boy.
Now, I'm wondering how I can make his older version un-Stu like.
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Story Keeper
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There's a wild wind blowin', down the corner of my street[Mo0:1]
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Post by Story Keeper on Jan 20, 2011 14:26:11 GMT -8
I've got two main characters to describe. Note that they're from the same story.
1. Michael's an only child. His family are upper lower class (if you catch my drift) and get on just fine. The only thing interesting that really happened in his past was that his father was sent out of the house by his wife due to his arrogance.
Later on, he suddenly loses his parents and has to fend for himself in the poorer parts of London (more specifically Aldgate) and gets beaten up for his quietness and (kind of) for his curly hair (which is a stereotype for posh boys). He starts fighting for money and rents a small room in a seedy little boarding-house. He's quiet, respectable (for a poor person), polite and naive. Is he a Stu?
2. Hannah lived with her mother and little brother until she was nine years old, when her mother was drunk and threatened her with a knife. She left home and lived and worked in a boarding house, washing clothes and sheets for a penny an hour. She taught herself a lot of things and because of that is quite clever. She's a bit of an eccentric.
Because she's clever and eccentric, she gets taunted by the older and stronger boys, but not too badly, for she's tall (politely known as a Strider). Is she a Sue?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2011 15:52:23 GMT -8
^ None of these thing make your characters sues unless you're done to make us feel sorry for the character. So long as there is an actual reason why he loses his parents, ect, and it does have a big impact on the story, you should be fine.
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Hlessi-Roo
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Welcome to the Chasm. The Chasm of SAR![Mo0:0]
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Post by Hlessi-Roo on Apr 21, 2011 4:47:53 GMT -8
Hi, have a character I'd like to check. The story is here: tsdcv3.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=writersfeed&thread=2826&page=1The character is Bronwyn, a young and very small black tom with bright amber eyes. (The book mostly focuses on animals) He's shy and insecure, but at the same time is quite intelligent and knows a good deal about myths and magic due to being a witch's cat (again, the book, being fantasy, has a large amount of magic-users in it). A fox dragged him away into the woods as a young kitten, old enough to know his name but little else, but he was found by Adeliala, the Air Sorceress, who took him in. Sure that he was the next Night King, she started training him in magic, often bringing him to the home of the Night Kings for tests. (The Night King was a figure, of any species, who ruled the magic-users of the lake and was in charge of hunting out any dark creatures posing a threat. The last king had been killed by the story's main villain hundreds of years ago, but had left a prophecy about his heir that would one day appear). Unfortunately, Bronwyn, while showing a little aptitude for basic magic, seemed unable to perform it himself. As the main character, a swan named Olly, is cursed to turn into a human in Adeliala's effort to protect him, Bronwyn is sent to make sure he doesn't get into trouble. The Night King subplot isn't brought up until around quarter-way through the book, where Bronwyn tells them that he honestly doesn't believe it. Later in the story, he and one of the other side-characters get captured by goblins. A throw-away line by another prisoner causes him to have a sudden revelation about himself, and allows him to finally unlock his own magic, just as the calvary arrives. Later, at the books climax while Olly is fighting the main villain, the others are trapped within the home of the Night Kings, Stonehaven, by the barrier that has came up around them to automatically defend the place. While they come up with a plan to get out, the Council (who used to serve the King) refuses on the grounds that they are too precious to lose. Bronwyn now takes the final test -finding the Night King's crown- as a direct order from the King could not be refused. He does find it, though comes out of it injured slightly, allowing the characters to escape and come to Olly's aid i in the final three chapters. The majority of the story is from Olly's POV, so I'm giving a little more detail than is mentioned in-book. It's the "found abandoned in the woods" thing that bothers me. I think the moral is supposed to be how a good thing can come out of a bad thing, but still.... (Also, apologies if this post is too long)
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on May 21, 2011 23:41:55 GMT -8
I'm rather fond of PTSD. It's the result of tragedy, and it leads to further tragedy. The gift that keeps on giving, for those observing the story, at least. A story I half-wrote (should probably finish it sometime...) involved several characters in a war zone, all of whom developed PTSD except for one. This one was seen as a monster early on, since he didn't seem to suffer any ill-effects from regularly killing other people, until one of the more empathetic characters points out that PTSD is at least as much a product of survival instinct as a reluctance to kill, and that the guy without PTSD therefore places as much value on his own life as those of his enemies. I like this. A lot of people nowadays seem to think that as soon as you have someone in your sights you automatically get PTSD, and anyone who doesn't get PTSD from killing another human is a monster. That's not true. Just because someone doesn't get PTSD from killing doesn't make them a monster, there's a ton of other reasons that they wouldn't. But, back on topic, another thing that drives me absolutely crazy is the amount of female Sue characters that are little more than bitchy caricatures. Rather than having any redeeming qualities, in order to "keep up with the boys" they act like they're PMSing, they're nasty in conversation, show know grace or civility, and are abusive toward everyone around them. And everyone loves them for it, and anyone who says "Hey, Rianna is a total bitch, and if she keeps cutting me down, we can't be friends" is villianized or told they need to get thicker skin. You can have a strong female character that isn't the poster child for female psychosis. But most Sues jump around one step shy of being a serial killer and everyone loves them. This is something that worries me about some of my female ocs. They're snarky, they're sarcastic, they're even a little violent at times. Honestly, yeah, a couple of them can be jerks. In my defense, my stories are intended to have humor and these ocs usually have reasons for their outbursts. In one case, my oc ends up making a young knight she recently met cry because she calls him useless. I reiterate: he's young, not to mention pretty inexperienced and naive, somewhat cowardly, makes false claims about his status in the hierarchy of knights to appear better off than he is, and is under the full belief that she is someone she's not and is trying his best to impress her and prove himself. And in his first attempt to prove himself of use to the girl he believes is someone of important nobility, he is incapable of giving her much of the info she needs about what's going on and she comments on it--in an openly rude and sarcastic way. So since insecurity is one of his issues, he considers himself a failure and starts to cry. In her defense, my oc is a "normal girl in real world" type character who has just been dragged to a "magical world of wonder and amazement" and the first thing that happens to her is that she's mistaken for someone else, locked up, insulted and threatened, and nearly killed. She only just barely managed to escape by a sheer fluke, has no idea what the hell is going on or where she even is, and is honestly more than just a little confused over everything. At the time of this incident, she's freaked out, stressed, and all around incredibly unhappy with the situation, and one of the people who SHOULD be able to explain the full story can't because he doesn't remember the specifics (honestly not his fault, but she doesn't know that and for all she figures, he simply didn't pay attention in history class). She comments on him being useless and he takes her words to heart and becomes overly emotional, crying about being a "failure in his duty". There are other people in the group who proceed to admonish her for her rudeness, to which she states she's just short of freaking out fully given everything that's happened so far. Once she gets some answers and a general idea what to do, she calms down and is overall more receptive and better able and willing to work with others. She does get better at responding to and getting along with the other group members once she gets used to the overall strangeness of the world and situation she's suddenly been dropped into. There are a couple of other times where she has similar outbursts, including one that involves a funny sarcastic statement regarding fighting the big bad with an intangible concept (love, dreams, wishes, etc) that is supposed to be a "power" (for the record, it doesn't work). I think it's more of a situational issue than a full out Jerk Sue, but tell me what you think.
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Post by Aethryx on Jul 31, 2011 3:48:06 GMT -8
Is this thread still active? I'd like to post a character of mine.
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Post by Darth Sariah on Jul 31, 2011 8:03:16 GMT -8
Nobodies stopping you Howler.
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Post by Aethryx on Jul 31, 2011 11:16:37 GMT -8
Alright, mine is an RP character for Final Fantasy VII. Keep in mind that the RP takes place during the Before Crisis period, around 2000 (7 years before FFVII). Apologies if it's long.
His name is Aethryix, a 21 year old man currently working for Avalanche. He's a quiet guy, usually keeps to himself, but he can also be hard-headed and persistent, a feature that caused him to lose one of his friends when he was a kid. He tries to avoid violence, but he's a good fighter when the situation requires it. Aethryix was born and raised in Gongaga, and grew up with his mom and dad. He was always interested in adventure, but was usually confined to the Gongaga town limits due to his worried parents. When he got older, his dad started to teach him about materia, a skill he carries on to this day. When he learned about Sephiroth at the age of 15, his new dream was to join SOLDIER and be a hero like him. He finally left Gongaga when he was 16, and traveled to Midgar to try and join. Once there he applied, and underwent the SOLDIER treatment. However, the treatment was unsuccessful, and he wasn't able to make it in SOLDIER. Instead, Shinra recruited him as a standard soldier, unwilling to release him just yet, for fear he might reveal the company's well kept secrets. The treatments did make him stronger and more resilient than normal people, but it had one fatal flaw. Due to his body's rejection of the Jenova cells inside him, he continually had recurring lapses of severe weakness and pain, causing him to be unable to fight. He was discharged, and released into the public, after swearing to never spill the beans. Not wanting to face the public yet, he wandered alone in the slums, until one really bad lapse occurred, causing him to black out. When he woke, he found himself bearing a large feathered wing on his left side. The sight shocked him, and caused him to conclude that he was a freak. He spent the next year in the slums, not facing anybody until he learned to hide the wing, giving him the semblance of a normal person. He swore that he would never tell anyone about his affiliations with Shinra, and in the next year he was found and recruited by Avalanche, an eco-terrorist organization bent on destroying Shinra Company. They gave him a home, and cared for him. When questioned about the lapses, he said he was "born with it". Although he can't always fight, he tries to whenever needed, but most of the time he works as a mechanic or a medic. During his work in Avalanche, he learned that the Gongaga mako reactor exploded, and immediately called home to make sure his parents were alright, but unfortunately his mom died of mako poisoning a few weeks later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2011 3:23:11 GMT -8
My character is from an original novel I'm planning on writing called: The Winds Of The East.
Character Name: Shai-Lang Wei
Character's Looks: She is a 16 year old girl with dark black hair(or red, I haven't decided yet) that is tied back in a ponytail with a red ribbon. she prefers this style since this way her hair doesn’t get in her eyes and she can fight better this way as she has never been particularly feminine, preferring fighting to learning how to do household tasks most girls her age are doing. She has a very innocent and naive look about her, even though she is almost sixteen. She wears a sleek fiery red Qipao, the traditional dress of her people and around her neck is a triangular shaped blue crystal, a crystal that she has had since her birth which holds the key to the secrets of herself and her people, yet she doesn’t know this yet of course, she has always wanted to know why she has had this crystal though, and what exactly it is, it has become something like a good luck charm to her now though, the sparkling sapphire always mesmerizing her whenever she looks deep within its core
Height/weight: She is 5'3 and weighs 160lbs
Personality: She is never without a smile adorning her face, her cheerfulness is contagious to everyone she meets. She is curious, spunky, strong-willed and energetic, yet she can be quite stubborn, obstinate and close-minded. Her stubborness is both a bad trait and a good trait, on the one hand while it is very difficult to make Shai-Lang give up, it also gets her into extremely messy situations, situations where her companions would have to pull her out of. She is highly impulsive with a very short temper and this causes her to charge head-first into situations without analyzing the situation first, thereby seriously endangering herself and her loved ones. She is also very naive about the outside world and thinks only her ways are the right ways, it'll take quite a lot of exposure to other's points of view until she sees that her views are actually quite bigoted. She is quite a racist in the beginning to anyone who is not Asian and is white. Another thing about Shai-Lang is that she has an extreme guilt issue and will tend to dwell on past events even if they weren't her fault. Also when confronted with the darkness of the world, she tends to break down easily due to her extreme childish and naive view on the world.
Quirks: Shai-Lang is the biggest eater you will ever meet. She is known as the "glutton" of Khazaria and can out-eat anyone at an eating contest. You put food in front of her, and it'll be guranteed that she'll messily gobble it up. Her favorite food are rice dumplings.
-Likes: Rice Dumplings, food in general, her friends, her grandparents, her pet wolf, animals in general, marital arts, a good battle, her religion and her people.
-Dislikes: Whites, Jews, Christians, Muslims, People trying to convert her and her people, Wimps, Tuna, people telling her that she's fat, sneaky and manipulative people, having to wait, people talking down to her and treating her like a kid, snobs.
Fighting style/ Weapon of choice: A wooden Katana that her grandparents got for her from the island next to China, Bows and Arrows, (The traditional fighting item of the Khazars) and her fists.
Backstory: The girl’s name is Shai-Lang Wei and she belongs to a very ancient people, known the Khazars. The Khazars are a nomadic wandering people that originated from Northern China, also known as Inner Mongolia. Yes, her people have a rich history indeed, they have developed into one of the most advanced civilizations of her time, however they were forced out of their homeland by the Mongol hordes and moved all across Russia, when finally settling down in Central Russia where they formed the Khazaria Kingdom, the greatest trading kingdom of the early Middle Ages. However, her people have suffered as they have been oppressed by the Westerners for being different and not believing in any of the monotheistic faiths. They have been forced to convert to one of the three big monotheistic religions if they wish to continue having a prosperous trading economy with Europe and the Middle East. Their traditional belief in the spirits of the Earth and in Buddism will not cut it. And so, the Emperor of Khazaria, Emperor Bu-lan chooses Judaism out of the big three, and the people of the kingdom are all forced to convert to Judaism, including Shai-Lang’s family. Shai-Lang does not relent however, as she is the head priestess of the Shrine that has been in her family’s line for generations, and even though her family has been brainwashed by the evil missionaries of the west, Shai-Lang is a strong girl and keeps her original faith intact.
When the Kingdom of Khazaria falls to the native Russians, the Khazar people are forced into Eastern Europe and get confined into ghettos, facing discrimination and prejudice from the white Europeans who view them as “dirty foreigners.” Shai-Lang and her family settle in Hungary, where they have to endure discrimination and poverty day after day..... Shai-Lang can’t help but wish back for those days when she was a little girl in China. How she played in the vast tall mountains and frolicked in the wild plains while chasing adorable baby pandas.
She also remembers her beloved grandparents who are still back home in China, they were always doting on her and training her in the ways of Martial Arts, they even got her a long wooden sword from the island across, the sword is known as a Katana and to this day Shai-Lang treasures her sword with all her life and is never seen without it. And so, with the sweet memories of her homeland and grandparents beckoning her, Shai-Lang sets out on a journey throughout Europe and the world in order to get back to China. During this journey, she will encounter many friends and foes, battle evil monsters, encounter bigotry and hatred, experience love, and battle the institutionalized religions of the west which threaten to destroy her people and culture.
She will learn many lessons along the way and will grow out of her simple naive thinking and discover that the world isn’t so black and white like she thought, that there are shades of gray in everything and nothing is ever what it seems. She will also discover a dark and magical secret about herself and her people, which to that blue pendant she wears around her neck. And it’ll be up to her inner strength to face this mysterious secret. And so, with nothing but her trusy katana sword sheathed in her bright red Qipao, her pet wolf, and the mysterious blue crystal pendant around her neck which holds the many secrets and mysteries of her people, Shai-Lang sets out for the adventure of a lifetime, the adventure that will change her from a young innocent girl to a strong and independent young woman. This is the coming of age story of a young girl in the Dark Ages, This is Sha-Lang....
Equipment: The Katana that she always carries with her and a Bow and arrows. At times she also dons her priestess outfit which is red pants with a loose white blouse. This outfit has spiritual powers and can lessen the damage taken against attacks.
Abilities: She is quite skilled in martial arts, however this is not unusual since girls in the Khazaria empire were trained in the ways of the warrior and grew up being just as battle savvy as the men. She still has a lot to learn however, as she will continue to grow in her martial arts skills as she goes about her journey, learning new techniques along the way and basically "leveling up" like a typical Shonen or JRPG protagonist. She will also later on gain the ability to use Fire Magic, and her blue pendant also has a secret power which shields her whenever her life is in grave danger. (This shall be explained later on in my story.)
Personal Quote: "Like Grams and Gramps always say: Never give up when the going gets tough, just keep on treadin!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2012 13:39:33 GMT -8
Name: David Bishop
Character's looks: He is a man in his late twenties who has short brown hair and a beard. He prefers to keep the beard because he insists it makes him look intimidating. He wears the standard hunter uniform, a dark hoodie, dark pants and combat boots.
Personality: Always having a witty joke for any occasion, David would seem just like your average anti-hero. However, he suffers from nightmares from his parent's brutal murder, but he never angsts about it because he believes it would waste people's time. He is also quite prone to flirting with random women, but nothing comes of it. He served the Hunters Order for a vast majority of his life and as a result he is completely unfazed by all the supernatural creatures he meets. He hates watching innocents pointlessly die and as more and more innocents are killed, he gets more determined to stop the antagonist.
Height and weight: 6'3 and 175lb
Likes: Women, a clean katana, helping the little guy, other members of the Hunters Order.
Dislikes: People angsting, vampires that abuse their powers, snobs.
Weapon of choice: Standard issue hunter gear, a gun and a katana. Sometimes brings along phosphorus grenades.
Backstory: When he was just 8 years old, his parents were violently murdered by a vampire serial killer. He was only saved when a hunter drove his parent's murderer away. After that, he was conscripted into the Hunters Order, a worldwide vampire hunting organization dating back to the Victorian era.
Equipment: See weapon of choice
Abilities: While he is still just a human, his skill with his katana is unmatched by most hunters his age. He is strong enough to tackle a werewolf (which is essentially 500 pounds of fur and muscle) but is not as strong as a fledgling.
Personal quote: "Lady, i would love to sleep with you, but my job being what it is, i can't do that. It also has something to do about the fact that you're a corpse".
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Post by Admin on Jul 29, 2012 15:08:15 GMT -8
@ Dantoon, while your character doesn't seem like a Gary Stu, you need to expand upon his personality and back-story to prevent him from being a generic character. If you are going to have him be an anti-hero, you need to explain what makes him one. For his back-story, it would help if you explain how he got trained and what other skills he was trained in aside from how to use guns/a katana. Something else I should point out is that if he has nightmares about his parents' deaths, he most likely has some sort of PTSD meaning that he would also have flashbacks while awake.
Another thing you may want to keep in mind is the fact that his outfit would not be the best outfit for his job. Hoodies, even if they are the right size, tend to be bulky and can give opponents something easy to grab onto while interfering with the wearer's movements. Considering that he will be fighting supernatural creatures, I really think he should have more equipment than just his weapons. For protection, it would make a lot of sense if he wore a Kevlar vest or something that would give him some additional protection (especially considering how heavy you describe the werewolves).
I know I am suggesting a lot of things, but you do have the building blocks for what could create an interesting character, but he needs some work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2012 16:17:56 GMT -8
Well the hunters are trained in ways to combat the supernatural. So he would be quite agile and his fighting style would be evasive. Also fire, lots and lots of fire. The gear and tactics used by hunters vary depending on what creature they face. On the hoodie problem, i'll just hand wave that they are specially made, though the hoodies i wear allow me to move easily and are not bulky at all. He has flashbacks when he sees a particularly brutal crime scene. I couldn't get a lot of his backstory in because i was in a rush.
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