Best magic systems/uses of magic in fiction?

[makoeyes]

One of the top things I look for in a fantasy series is a good use of magic. Ever since being enchanted by the world of Harry Potter at the age of eight, I've wanted to escape to a fantastic world where I can do magic and cool stuff. I usually prefer hard magic over soft magic. I like magic to be more like real life science. It can be understood from a scientific viewpoint (even if it defies the ordinary laws of physics), is logical, has clearly defined rules and limits, and most importantly can be used for practical purposes.

So what's your favorite magic systems in all of fantasy? Note that this isn't just literature and applies to all forms of fantasy fiction, including video games. I like some forms of magic that most people wouldn't even consider magic, such as:

Silent Hill

I know most people consider the "magic" in the series to be psychic powers rather than magic, but there are, Imo, magical elements, such as aglaophotis being used for exorcisms. It's "soft magic", which is when magic is not explained much. Examples of soft magic being Lord of the Rings. However, what it's shown to be able to do fascinates me. There's this whole other world out there that can be controlled by people with psychic powers. Yes, it's a hell dimension, but Imo the Otherworld has a macabre and eyepopping beauty and (horrific) wonder to it. If you're lucky enough to have strong powers, it could be quite fun indeed, even without using it for revenge. It's not stated, but I think that with training and hard work, even normal people may be able to gain some level of power. I'm pretty sure Dahlia didn't have an Inherent Gift, but she had strong powers, being able to teleport, divine the future, and block bullets. I think Claudia only had retrocognition as a natural gift, but she also had many other powers, such as implied telekinesis. It's highly possible that even normal people like the protagnist have some level of power, due to the nature of the Otherworld. What are the chances in real life that you'd just be lucky to find weapons and ammo lying around? And health drinks are not going to magically heal your wounds. I can't really explain the sense of wonder (and fear) I get from SH, but it's definitely there, and I love it to death.

Wheel of Time

I haven't read WoT yet, but the One Power fascinates me. The One Power involves drawing power from the Wheel of Time, which is basically the cyclical force that governs reality. Channelers can do magic (which isn't even called magic until late in the series) by weaving patterns of the Power and five elements (water, earth, fire, air and spirit) for various effects. It's not based on stamina or MP, but rather on how much Power you're able to channel, because the One Power is infinite like all of reality. More powerful Channelers are balanced out by the fact that, while you can Channel more Power, it's harder to control.

Another creative idea is that men and women's channeling works differently. To quote one of the books,

The One Power comes from the True Source, the driving force of creation, the force the Creator made to turn the Wheel of Time. Saidin, the male half of the True Source, and saidar, the female half, work against each other, and at the same time together to provide that force. Saidin is fouled by the touch of the Dark One, like water with a thin slick of rancid oil floating on top. The water is still pure, but it could not be touched without touching the foulness.

Saidar is gentler, and involves surrendering control over one's self to the True Source, and allow it to flow through the Channeler. Saidar is better for working with water and air. Saidin, on the other hand, is more aggressive, about seizing control over the True Source, and is better with fire and earth. Spirit is spread equally between men and women, and equally rare.

The One Power is very powerful. One of the "archmages" was able to channel so much Power that they created a mountain. The Choedan Kal lets a Channeler crack the planet apart.

There are also objects that let people Channel much more power. To quote Wikipedia:

Angreal are artifacts which enable their users to draw more of the One Power than they would normally be able to. Angreal also protect them from drawing enough Power to burn themselves out.

Sa'angreal are identical to angreal, except that they allow the user to draw more Power than even an angreal can handle. At least one sa'angreal, usable only by men, is known to be missing the buffer that prevents the user from drawing more than the sa'angreal allows him to safely use. This is Callandor, pronounced CAH-lahn-DOOR, the sword which is not a sword. The access keys—both ter'angreal—for the two most powerful sa'angreal ever created, the Choedan Kal, are in Rand al'Thor's possession. These allow him to tap into the vast power of the one buried in Cairhien designed for use by men and another designed for women which is buried on Tremalking (although the access key for the female Choedan Kal was destroyed cleansing saidin during the ninth book Winter's Heart. At the end of the 12th book the male Choedan Kal itself is destroyed by Rand Al'Thor turning its power against it).

Ter'angreal are objects of the One Power that perform specific functions. Some ter'angreal do not require the One Power to be used for their activation, such as the spiral ring in the form of a Möbius strip which Verin gave to Egwene (which she gave to Elayne and Nynaeve), and the twisted red doorframes that lead into the realms of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn (Snakes and Foxes).

While, for a time, it wasn't as fun as it could've been to be a male Channeler in the series,

SPOILER: Click to show

{HUGE spoiler}Rand, the main hero, eventually cleanses Saidin of the Taint.

There's also another power source called the True Power. The True Power comes directly from the Dark One (who is basically like Zoroastrianism's Angra Mainyu). It's mostly used for blowing stuff up and WAY more corrupting than Saidin.

There are also other unusual powers not related to Channeling. I like Treesinging, which allows you to control plants and wood. Really, there's too much for me to explain about Channeling and other magical powers, so I'll just link to Wikipedia's articles on it.

The One Power
Special abilities
The True Power

Tamora Pierce's Circle of Magic series

I think that, along with HP, this series has one of the most fun magic systems I've ever read, and like HP there's no real downside to being a mage. In this universe, mages have a specialty, such as vision magic. Within that specialty, they can do pretty much anything you can think of. One of the main characters used vegetable dye to give himself tattoos of plants, and now his plant magic makes it so that he has plants growing out of his arms.

The main charaters are what are called "ambient mages." Ambient mages are mages who draw their power from outside sources rather than most of their power coming from inside like academic mages. Ambient mages only account for 25% of mages within the series' universe, and most people don't even know it exists. The difference between ambient and academic magic is that academic mages have trouble building up their power, whereas ambient mages struggle to control power that is constantly flowing into them. Ambient mages are born with their specialty (though it's something they have a liking for), whereas academic mages choose their specialty. Neither is really more powerful than the other.

Ambient magic is animistic, because things like glass and even lightning are described by ambient mages as being "alive," though the mages are the powers and they don't have to kowtow to the animistic spirits within things. Rather, it's the reverse, and most things like plants ar eager to please mages of their specialty.

It's pretty badass as well. One of the main characters uses thread magic, but she was able to, without much effort at all, cocoon people in webs that weren't able to be cut away. She can make invisibility cloaks. She can make nets that rip people apart, which happens at the end of one of the books.

Harry Potter

I can't think of any other magic system that it would be more fun to be than the one in HP.

It made magic wands cool again (no mean feat). In HP, magic doesn't seem to fatigue you at all, and apparently costs no effort whatsoever. It can be used for almost anything, like lifting cars, flying, teleporting, getting food, clothing, and shelter, reading minds. There's almost nothing magic can't do. If it existed in the real world, wizards could pretty much fix all the real world problems, like the environment, energy problems, crime, endangered animals, AIDS, cancer, etc., etc. If I were a wizard, I'd try to become a superhero.

Best of all there's this whole other fantastic world out there that people with magical powers get to be a part of. Who of you that are fans of the book wouldn't want to live in the HP 'verse? Who of you that read the books didn't fantasize about being able to go to Hogwarts instead of a normal school? Is there any downside at all to be a wizard or witch?

The Vampire Diaries

I consider this one to be somewhere between soft and hard. While it's never explained how magic works in detail, we get some idea, such as the Laws of Sympathy. Magic isn't as versatile in this show as it is in HP, but it's still quite powerful. You get to start fires, move things with your minds, kick vampire ass, all kinds of neat stuff. It's even outright confirmed that witches are the most powerful magical creature in the show. Again, like HP, is their an downside to being a mage in this universe?

Final Fantasy (various games)
The magic in the series ranges between hard and soft. So I'll just talk about a few of the magic systems from games that I like.

First off is Final Fantasy VI. The portrayal of magic in this game is a lot more bleak and depressing than the other ones on my list, however, I really like the way it works. A long time ago, there were three gods, called the Warring Triad, who made war on one another (obviously). They created beings with magical powers, called Espers. Espers had free will, but they're sort of like Controllers from Animorphs in that, while they were aware of what they were doing, they had no control over their actions. Eventually the WT realized what they were doing was wrong, and freed the Espers from enslavement. The gods imprisone themselves as stone statues, remaining immobile yet inredibly powerful as the source of all magic. After freeing the Espers, they only asked that the Espers protect their statues, to which the Espers agreed. The Espers left to a new realm where they could live and guard the WT in peace. Eventually however,

SPOILER: Click to show

{BIG spoiler}a man named Gestahl discovered the Espers and used magic to try to conquer the world. He kidnapped Espers and drained their powers, creating Magitek armor. Eventually though it's found out that magicite, the crystalized dust from dead Espers, is far more powerful than Magitek. Equipping magicite will allow the player character to use a spell, and eventually permanently learn some spells. While the crystal is equipped, it allows for the dead Esper to be summoned, which is how the summoning works in this universe. A few people have the power to do magic naturally. Terra Branford can learn some spells naturally and her Magitek is more powerful because she's half Esper. Kefka Palazzo was infused with magic in an experiment, but it drove him insane. Celes Chere underwent the same experiment, but it had been perfected, so she kept her sanity. In battle, Celes's magic functions the same as Terra's, with her learning some spells naturally.

Using magic in the game costs MP, which is Magic Points. Once you run out of MP, you can't do magic anymore unless you rest at an inn or take an item, or suck MP from an enemy.

Final Fantasy VII

In this game, magic is based on drawing power from the Lifestream, the life essence of the planet. This is done by equipping Materia. Materia is crystallized Mako, and Mako is the liquid Lifestream itself. Like in FFVI, using magic costs MP. Materia get more powerful and level up as you use them. Again, magic in this game is bleaker and more depressing than most other ones on my list (except for SH), because you're essentially casting from lifespan. Every time Materia is used, the planet's lifespan is shortened a bit.

Materia can be used for a variety of purposes, not just casting spells. Green Materia is spell casting, whereas red Materia is summoning. The uses of Materia are explained in detail at the Final Fantasy Wiki.

Final Fantasy VIII

Magic in this game is possesed naturally by Sorceresses, who are always female. Sorceresses can use their powers for very versatile purposes such as telekinesis, transfiguring stone monsters to life, blocking bullets, teleporting, walking through walls, and other things. Sorceresses are born with a magical specialty like ice or time and space. I really, really like the use of Sorceresses in this game, and I have a similar idea in my fantasy universe.

Magic as used by normal people is done through Para-Magic, which is a technology that's based off of the power of a Sorceress. The player characters in the game use magic by "Junctioning" Guardian Forces (summon monsters) to themselves. When Junctioned, characters can summon the GF. Spells are cast by drawing spells from either Draw Points or enemies, and then stocking spells. There can be 36 different spells in a character's stock at a time, and each spell can be stocked up to 100 times. So basically, it's Vancian magic. A spell can also be "draw casted," which is when you select draw on an enemy, and then directly cast the spell instead of using up one of your stocked spells.

The spells themselves are how you boost your stats. You Junction the spell to a stat, and then that stat will increase. Some spells are more powerful than others. Ultima, for example, is usually the best spell that can be Junctioned to any stat. With this a person could, for example, make themselves completely absorb all elements, or make themselves immun to the Sleep status.

Guardian Forces also allows for many other abilities besides Junctioning, drawing and using spells. An example would be leveling up or leveling down enemies.

There is no equipment in the games, except weapons, which only boost strength and accuracy, and it has the smallest weapon list of any game. Instead, it's all down to the GF. Your GF level up and become more powerful as you battle, and learn more abilities that way. Imo, it's most the cost effective of the games. Honestly, my favorite of the different systems in FF would be a combination between VIII and VII.

Junctioning is based entirely on the mind, as can be seen when

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}the party mentally travels back through time, and the people their minds reside in gain the powers of GF as well.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}It is a bit depressing though, since the GF draws power from the part of the brain that governs memory, thus causing memory loss. Though if a sequel ever gets made, it'll probably be fixed.

Disney

Because it's just freaking awesome. It's very, very soft magic, but despite that, I still love it. You have people turning into giant cobras, breathing fire, causing giant thorns to shoot up from lightning strikes, turning people into talking objects, all kinds of amazing sh*t. Who wouldn't want to be able to do things like that?

Kingdom Hearts

KH basically combines Disney and Final Fantasy magic into one, so what's not to love about it?

Children of the Red King
This one's very soft, and outside of specific talents, called Endowments, the rules are never really explained. Imo, I like the books but the author does use a few ass pulls. I like the fact that the descendantts of the titular Red King have their specific Endowments, like controlling the weather or telekinesis. Pretty much all of them would be cool to have (except for being a werebeast), and some of them are pretty strong. Non-Endowed are capable of being magical heavyweights as well. It can be used for some pretty fantastic stuff, like making it rain frogs.

It's pretty much another world. I can't remember the name of it, but there's a magical island that can only be reached or left through magic, and explicitly magical, non human creatures live there. There's also a race of beast-men, though they are a subspecies of human.

I also like the fact that time travel in that universe is based on pictures. As long as it depicts something real, Charlie can travel into the past and meet people, and even bring people into his time, as well as certain objects. There's also a bit of hard magic in that people who come from the past can't return to their time until all of their objects they had with them in the picture are with them. There's one instance whenever a sorcerer can't return to the Middle Ages because a mouse he had with him in his pocket had gotten lost. Unfortunately this doesn't really get used to its full potential Imo, so Charlie is rather weaker than he could be. Granted, he wants to be normal, but it'd still help him out. It also allows him to travel to present locations if the picture is special. An example would be a picture of that island I mentioned which can only be reached by Charlie if he looks at its painting. He can also bring other people with him.

Wands also work in an interesting way in this series. Whereas in HP, wands work best for their chosen master, but can still work for other people, wands in this series only work for their chosen partner. Wands are also shown to be indestructable, because Charlie's wand was thrown into the fire, but it turned into a silver moth that can still do magic. Wands are, like in HP, semi-sentient, and the moth's name is Claerwen (I think. It's been a while since I read it). Claerwen is a she. Charlie is unable to use his wand by commanding it, and it only works whenever he requests that it do something like he's talking to a friend.

Magic systems I'm not really all that fond of

I LOVE the Dresden Files (I haven't posted anything in the thread for it yet because I haven't read all the books yet). But that said, I just don't like the magic system. It's very hard, makes sense, and is logical, but there's just no sense of wonder or fun. It's honestly kind of weak in comparison to most of these magic systems I listed, unless of you're dealing with gods like Titania. Harry's supposed to be one of the top 20 0r 30 wizards in the world, but he's constantly getting his ass handed to him. Magic screws up technology, but wizards don't have any cool stuff like floating candles or anything in the HP 'verse to make up for it. His apartment is freezing in the winter, and he has to use an ice box instead of a freezer. Healing magic is very difficult, to the extent that Harry just goes to a regular hospital instead of using magic to fix it. Again, it's like "What's the point? Where's the fun in it?" And the worst thing of all is that wizards seem to be pretty weak in comparison to other magical creatures. Based on

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}the fact that wizards are losing the war with vampires

, it seems like even freaking vampires are stronger than them.

Again, I LOVE the DF. I'm just not a big fan of its style of magic. I do like some things about it though. I like the fact that magic is mostly secular. I also like that you pretty much throw any mess o' crap together and make a potion, as long as it has symbolic meaning. I don't use that type of potion making in my universe, but for the DF, where magic is cumbersome and has few non-combat uses, it's a plus for that type of magic. I also like that pretty much everyone can learn magic to a slight extent in the DF.

If anyone wants help with their magic system, later I'm going to be posting a thread in the Writers' section about creating magic systems.

Also, anyone want to me to create a poll for this thread?

[Ozymandias II]

One that I can think of now is The Old Kingdom Trilogy (Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen). Basically, once magic was chaotic and uncontrollable, but several powerful beings bound it to a system known as the Charter. The Charter is like a source of magic that anyone can draw from, but you need to know the specific Marks needed for certain spells, and the more powerful Marks can severly hurt or even kill an inexperienced person who doesn't know what they're doing. There's also Free Magic which is magic that is not bound to the Charter and that is highly chaotic and corrosive, used mainly by the baddies. When the Abhorsen has to use it, he or she must have protection so that the Free Magic does not kill him or her.

Magic seems to be tied into music as well, bells being the most prominent. Evil necromancers use their bells to raise the Dead to do their bidding whereas the Abhorsen uses his or her bells to stop them and lay the Dead to rest. Each bell has a specific use and is linked to one of the original Bright Shiners that first put the Charter into place.

To add a bit, I actually don't mind some of the "soft magic" where it isn't well explained. Sometimes the mystery and strangeness of it is what makes it interesting, like in LOTR and others. If it's well done it can add an element of otherwordliness to a story and make it feel like there's something larger at work that humans can't quite understand, like in Lovecraft.

[makoeyes]

^By Marks, are you talking about geometric symbols, ala Alchemy in Fullmetal Alchemist? That's a pretty interesting system they've got there.

I like some forms of soft magic, like the The Chronicles of Narnia, or like you said, LOTR. The thing I don't like about some of them though is that humans are rather weak or don't have any powers at all, which can also show up hard magic systems. Again, I like the magic in LOTR, but Tolkien has stated that humans don't have magic powers outside of minor abilities (like Aragorn's healing powers), unless they serve an evil Power. I like it when the humans are capable of being heavyweights spell-slingers.

[annoyed]

I like the way it's portrayed in the Shin Megami Tensei/Persona games

[Fiery Firefly]

I'm kind of confused by what you mean by hard and soft magic. Like would Puella Magi Madoka Magica, be considered hard, because it does give an explanation for the purpose of magic

SPOILER: Click to show

It basically fuels the entire fucking universe

but even that opens up more questions then it answers.

Most of the magic systems I like are really soft, stuff like magical girl anime and My Little Pony and such. Honestly when the magic is explained too much, it feels more like sci-fi to me.

I really like magic systems where magic can take a toll on its user and can fuck them up real bad like the aforementioned Madoka. I like it when things like that have huge consequences.

[makoeyes]

Apr 8, 2013 12:47:47 GMT -8 Fiery Firefly said:

I'm kind of confused by what you mean by hard and soft magic. Like would Puella Magi Madoka Magica, be considered hard, because it does give an explanation for the purpose of magic

SPOILER: Click to show

It basically fuels the entire fucking universe

but even that opens up more questions then it answers.

Most of the magic systems I like are really soft, stuff like magical girl anime and My Little Pony and such. Honestly when the magic is explained too much, it feels more like sci-fi to me.

I really like magic systems where magic can take a toll on its user and can fuck them up real bad like the aforementioned Madoka. I like it when things like that have huge consequences.

A series can use a cross between hard and soft magic. Most soft magic in fiction has at least a few rules and explanations. The Protectors of the Plot Continuum Wiki does a good job of explaining the difference between the two. Link.

I can see why people would like that kind of magic, but I greatly prefer magic with escapism, where it would be cool to be a magic user and not depressing.

[Fiery Firefly]

By that definition I'd say Madoka is soft then.

Oh I like escapism too, I just listed My Little Pony, as a magic system I liked. Its just the ones I really really like make it a double edged sword... which is how it'd probably be if magic was a real thing.

Also I really like the idea of that magic system thread in the WC, I might need that at some point.

[Ozymandias II]

Apr 7, 2013 22:37:24 GMT -8 makoeyes said:

^By Marks, are you talking about geometric symbols, ala Alchemy in Fullmetal Alchemist? That's a pretty interesting system they've got there.

I like some forms of soft magic, like the The Chronicles of Narnia, or like you said, LOTR. The thing I don't like about some of them though is that humans are rather weak or don't have any powers at all, which can also show up hard magic systems. Again, I like the magic in LOTR, but Tolkien has stated that humans don't have magic powers outside of minor abilities (like Aragorn's healing powers), unless they serve an evil Power. I like it when the humans are capable of being heavyweights spell-slingers.

I dunno. I kinda like it when humans are far less powerful magically, because then we can outdo the badguys with raw intellegence!

[makoeyes]

Apr 8, 2013 14:35:43 GMT -8 Fiery Firefly said:

By that definition I'd say Madoka is soft then.

Oh I like escapism too, I just listed My Little Pony, as a magic system I liked. Its just the ones I really really like make it a double edged sword... which is how it'd probably be if magic was a real thing.

Also I really like the idea of that magic system thread in the WC, I might need that at some point.

Oh yeah, missed the MLP reference. Idk about magic being a double-eged sword. I kind of think that if it were real, then it would be like technology. Yes, technology fucks things up too, but we get far more good things from it than we do bad things.

I'm actually typing up the thread for the WC right now.

Btw, what is that thing in your avatar? Is it a bird? Or a plant?

Apr 8, 2013 15:00:46 GMT -8 Ozymandias II said:

Apr 7, 2013 22:37:24 GMT -8 makoeyes said:

^By Marks, are you talking about geometric symbols, ala Alchemy in Fullmetal Alchemist? That's a pretty interesting system they've got there.

I like some forms of soft magic, like the The Chronicles of Narnia, or like you said, LOTR. The thing I don't like about some of them though is that humans are rather weak or don't have any powers at all, which can also show up hard magic systems. Again, I like the magic in LOTR, but Tolkien has stated that humans don't have magic powers outside of minor abilities (like Aragorn's healing powers), unless they serve an evil Power. I like it when the humans are capable of being heavyweights spell-slingers.

I dunno. I kinda like it when humans are far less powerful magically, because then we can outdo the badguys with raw intellegence!

I like the idea of some creatures being mroe magically powerful than us, since we can beat them with smarts, but I don't like humans being the weakest. Imo, human mages should at least be stronger than vampires. In my universe, human mages are easily one of the strongest of beings, with the only ones being stronger are "angels" (that's what I'm calling them for now) and their fallen counterparts, gods (obviously), djinn, faeries and dragons. Even then those races have weaknesses that humans can exploit, and the good guys even start engineering anti-god weaponry at one point which eventually proves to be highly effective later on in the series. Humans are also the most creative and "original" of all races, both in an inellectual and artistic sense.

[Fiery Firefly]

I guess you have a point there. But its always nice to see different interpretations of how magic would work

Its a bird, a parakeet... I have an obsession with them. XD

[makoeyes]

Apr 8, 2013 15:55:13 GMT -8 Fiery Firefly said:

I guess you have a point there. But its always nice to see different interpretations of how magic would work

It is interesting to see different styles. Like I said, that's one of the things I like most about fantasy.

Its a bird, a parakeet... I have an obsession with them. XD

Oh I see now. XD I couldn't even see its eyes before, but now I see they're just very beady.