Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2010 7:30:08 GMT -8
I think Esmee Cullen adopted these children because she is a good mother, honstly. she adopted these children out of sympathy... and because she couldn't have any herself. But I'm amazed that she couldn't see something wrong in Edward's obsessive behavior towards Bella. I guess she just wants the best for them. All in all, I think she's a good charcter.
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J.Day
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Post by J.Day on Nov 24, 2010 7:49:10 GMT -8
^ Yes... but we don't know that much about Esme to call her a "good" character. Did she experience some kind of internal conflict when Carlisle turned her into a vampire? We don't really know that. Did she willingly accept these so-called children as her own? Sure, on the surface we know that. But we don't know to what extent she actually wanted to pretend to be their mother, especially since these "children" were actually young adults when they died and were turned. It's not like Esme has to feed them, take them to school or soccer games, or change their diapers, even though Edward Cullen does seem like he should be wearing diapers. I'm actually working on a fan-fic with Sassley to explore just how much character Esme could potentially have. We're curious as to how Esme could have been a full, well-rounded character instead of merely a cardboard cut-out of what a mother should be like. Meyer has glossed over Esme as this loving, maternal, nurturing type of woman, and she does this mainly through narration. Meyer tells us, through Bella, that Esme is a good person, but Meyer fails to show HOW Esme is a good person in her writing. You cannot say that a character is "good" if the author does not show HOW that character is good and instead just TELLS you that.
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Post by thewizardofoz on Nov 24, 2010 8:05:22 GMT -8
Esme's character can be summarized by this simple sentence:
Esme: Oh, well, babies don't matter too much...
That's what I'm getting. She seems to be saying "she's gotten over human emotions, concerns, needs, feelings, and desires". I just think she's plain inhuman.
I said something on the last forum about this, actually. No one talks like this unless they're a 12-year-old girl who knows nothing about suicide, but researched "mental disorders" for a school play, went with it, and this was born. She's like, "Oh, whatever, I almost died, who the fuck cares?"
Now, getting over suicidal urges doesn't mean blowing things off as if they were nothing. It means changing yourself to become a better person, and remembering the past to work in the present and continue living in the future. But we can't have that, now can we?
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J.Day
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Post by J.Day on Nov 24, 2010 8:25:47 GMT -8
^ Wait, I don't remember where Esme said that about jumping off cliffs. Was that in New Moon? Because if that's so, then I can see where Bella got the idea from.
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Post by thewizardofoz on Nov 24, 2010 8:30:23 GMT -8
^ Wait, I don't remember where Esme said that about jumping off cliffs. Was that in New Moon? Because if that's so, then I can see where Bella got the idea from. Actually, it was from Twilight, Chapter 17, The Game; p. 192. Apparently, Bella held that idea in mind for further reference in New Moon. Honestly, I don't know why she bothered to include that detail because it bears absolutely no significance to the rest of the plot.
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kleptomaniack
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Post by kleptomaniack on Nov 24, 2010 9:02:07 GMT -8
Maybe it's better that SMeyer didn't try to develop Esme. We all know what happened to Jacob in Eclipse when she tried to "develop" him (no pun intended).
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slovie
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Post by slovie on Nov 24, 2010 13:35:37 GMT -8
Whenever I read about Esme, I immediately think of some sort of 50s housewife. She really could of had a lot of potential. Perhaps a woman who sort of had "one foot in the kitchen and one foot out?"
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Jan 5, 2011 10:59:36 GMT -8
I just looked up the name Esme on behindthename.com and in the comments someone said that in the books Esme has a successful interior design business. Does anyone remember this?
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Post by Elentari on Jan 5, 2011 12:05:08 GMT -8
Know what made me absolutely hate the character? Her reaction when Wardo was obsessing about Bella.
So Alice presents two futures - one of Bella getting killed, another of her being vamped - and it's absolutely right that one of them is going to be because she Saw It and for this one moment her visions stop being subjective. All of them act like it was Great Truth and it's not going to change. To Wardo, both of these futures are horrible and terrifying, because for once he is acting like a decent person who doesn't want to kill an innocent girl or change her into a monster.
How does Esme feel about this? She's glad. She doesn't f**king care that innocent life is at stake as long as it means that Wardo has finally found a girl! It means nothing to her that her not-son is obviously tormented about it! I reckon it's because she's just glad that Wardo isn't gay after all, and actually it was either Das Mervin or gehayi who presented a wonderful theory about Esme: actually Wardo and Carlisle were lovers before Esme came along and when Bella appears, she's just so relieved because that would prevent Wardo stealing Carlisle from her.
Furthermore, she always seems to act like some doormat and she never really does anything to improve the story. We don't really know anything about her personality - apparently she is loving and likes to redecorate things and houses, but that's about it. She's absolutely unnecessary to the plot and in my opinion she's only there to create some illusion of perfect family, and also to provide Carlisle with a mate, because then Wardo being single wouldn't be such a big thing to them. In my opinion she and Rosalie should have been combined.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Jan 8, 2011 13:42:03 GMT -8
She also was apparently totally fine with Edward killing Bella as long as whatever he did made him happy.
If she's nice or good, it's very selectively. I tend to think she's more just indifferent.
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WolfGod
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Post by WolfGod on Jan 8, 2011 21:56:48 GMT -8
She's too 1-dimensional to ascribe any real quality or emotion to.
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Post by vampirekites on Jan 9, 2011 8:43:55 GMT -8
They are all pretty much token characters, just some get more screen time than others. Esme is the token "Better Mom". She's the alternative to Bella's real mom. Esme says loving, cuddly things to her, but she doesn't worry constantly, doesn't call or email her all of the time, and Bella doesn't have to look out for Esme. It's like Carlisle being the better Charlie. They give her enough attention for Bella to feel special, but not too much as to cramp her style, the way Bella's real parents do. It's like every teen girls dream parents.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Jan 9, 2011 8:57:19 GMT -8
They are all pretty much token characters, just some get more screen time than others. Esme is the token "Better Mom". She's the alternative to Bella's real mom. Esme says loving, cuddly things to her, but she doesn't worry constantly, doesn't call or email her all of the time, and Bella doesn't have to look out for Esme. It's like Carlisle being the better Charlie. They give her enough attention for Bella to feel special, but not too much as to cramp her style, the way Bella's real parents do. It's like every teen girls dream parents. Yeah, I agree with this. I think that's why Esme just seems like such a non-entity to me. Real parents (and I don't mean biological parents by that, I mean anyone in a parental role who takes that role seriously) will care consistently, not just care when it's convenient for their child. Because Esme doesn't seem to have moments of being overprotective or worrying about the kids even when they're fine, and doesn't even go out of her way to have contact with them, she doesn't really read as a mother for me. Not because she didn't give birth to the kids-- mothers who adopt their kids, even older kids, are just as much mothers-- but because she doesn't show the same level of concern that good mothers generally have.
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Post by TheAngel'sWings on Jan 9, 2011 9:15:20 GMT -8
Agreed to pretty much every point here. However, like many background (and main) characters, in the hands of a decent author, her situation could've been dealt with sensitively and delicately, and she could have been awesome. Like, a permanently broken woman who's been trying to put a life together for herself in the wake of all the tragedies. Or, indeed, a different interpretation.
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Post by Avocados :D on Jan 9, 2011 12:21:33 GMT -8
I just looked up the name Esme on behindthename.com and in the comments someone said that in the books Esme has a successful interior design business. Does anyone remember this? I believe it's mentioned in the last book to explain away Bella's dream cottage (I think). Esme designed it herself or something like that. Completely pointless and amounted to nothing, but that's Twilight for you.
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Post by vampirekites on Jan 9, 2011 12:26:16 GMT -8
Agreed to pretty much every point here. However, like many background (and main) characters, in the hands of a decent author, her situation could've been dealt with sensitively and delicately, and she could have been awesome. Like, a permanently broken woman who's been trying to put a life together for herself in the wake of all the tragedies. Or, indeed, a different interpretation.
She couldn't one-up Ms.Gloomy Trousers herself, the always cheerful Bella Swan.
Having sympathy for another character?Pfft, can't have that, can we?
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WolfGod
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Post by WolfGod on Jan 9, 2011 13:42:18 GMT -8
It's amazing how she accidentally farted out character concepts that had so much potential, and she just wasted it by refusing to write in any kind of conflict. Watch, it's easy. I'll do it right now.
Carlisle - The doctor who murdered hundreds, maybe thousands. A man of great guilt trying desperately to atone for his sins, yet still tormented by the fact that half his family exists because he turned them against their will. Esme - A broken woman who suffocates her surrogate family at times because of the lingering fear that she will lose it all over again. She is the tragedy of the mother who had to bury a child while also being the everyday story of the woman who is nothing without a family to validate her. Rosalie - Her betrayal and murder still hurt after nearly a century and she's only now learning to trust people again. She resents her surrogate family, but stays with them out of convenience. Emmett - The most well-adjusted of the family, but his reveling in his strength and power is manifesting in a slowly developing superiority complex. He's beginning to question why they have to keep themselves secret. Jasper - A haunted veteran suffering from trauma that is beyond Carlisle's ability to treat. He stays the furthest away from humanity for fear of losing control. He's a stranger in his own body. Alice - A modern-day Cassandra who sporadically sees visions of what may come, but is often powerless to do anything about it. Her cheerful demeanor is nothing more than a facade to hide the sense of fatalism that threatens to consume her. Edward - Resents what he has become. Though Carlisle attempts to be a surrogate father, Edward only pushes him away. He stays with the Cullens for lack of anywhere else to go, and represses all of his hatred, loathing and frustration, leading to a demeanor of cold disdain and contempt for the world and everyone in it. He's a broken man too impotent and self-loathing to do anything about it.
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Tim Willard
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Post by Tim Willard on Jan 9, 2011 17:22:25 GMT -8
It's amazing how she accidentally farted out character concepts that had so much potential, and she just wasted it by refusing to write in any kind of conflict. Watch, it's easy. I'll do it right now. Carlisle - The doctor who murdered hundreds, maybe thousands. A man of great guilt trying desperately to atone for his sins, yet still tormented by the fact that half his family exists because he turned them against their will. Esme - A broken woman who suffocates her surrogate family at times because of the lingering fear that she will lose it all over again. She is the tragedy of the mother who had to bury a child while also being the everyday story of the woman who is nothing without a family to validate her. Rosalie - Her betrayal and murder still hurt after nearly a century and she's only now learning to trust people again. She resents her surrogate family, but stays with them out of convenience. Emmett - The most well-adjusted of the family, but his reveling in his strength and power is manifesting in a slowly developing superiority complex. He's beginning to question why they have to keep themselves secret. Jasper - A haunted veteran suffering from trauma that is beyond Carlisle's ability to treat. He stays the furthest away from humanity for fear of losing control. He's a stranger in his own body. Alice - A modern-day Cassandra who sporadically sees visions of what may come, but is often powerless to do anything about it. Her cheerful demeanor is nothing more than a facade to hide the sense of fatalism that threatens to consume her. Edward - Resents what he has become. Though Carlisle attempts to be a surrogate father, Edward only pushes him away. He stays with the Cullens for lack of anywhere else to go, and represses all of his hatred, loathing and frustration, leading to a demeanor of cold disdain and contempt for the world and everyone in it. He's a broken man too impotent and self-loathing to do anything about it.
I could take that and write you an epic.
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J.Day
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Post by J.Day on Jan 10, 2011 11:20:56 GMT -8
It's amazing how she accidentally farted out character concepts that had so much potential, and she just wasted it by refusing to write in any kind of conflict. Watch, it's easy. I'll do it right now. Carlisle - The doctor who murdered hundreds, maybe thousands. A man of great guilt trying desperately to atone for his sins, yet still tormented by the fact that half his family exists because he turned them against their will. Esme - A broken woman who suffocates her surrogate family at times because of the lingering fear that she will lose it all over again. She is the tragedy of the mother who had to bury a child while also being the everyday story of the woman who is nothing without a family to validate her. Rosalie - Her betrayal and murder still hurt after nearly a century and she's only now learning to trust people again. She resents her surrogate family, but stays with them out of convenience. Emmett - The most well-adjusted of the family, but his reveling in his strength and power is manifesting in a slowly developing superiority complex. He's beginning to question why they have to keep themselves secret. Jasper - A haunted veteran suffering from trauma that is beyond Carlisle's ability to treat. He stays the furthest away from humanity for fear of losing control. He's a stranger in his own body. Alice - A modern-day Cassandra who sporadically sees visions of what may come, but is often powerless to do anything about it. Her cheerful demeanor is nothing more than a facade to hide the sense of fatalism that threatens to consume her. Edward - Resents what he has become. Though Carlisle attempts to be a surrogate father, Edward only pushes him away. He stays with the Cullens for lack of anywhere else to go, and represses all of his hatred, loathing and frustration, leading to a demeanor of cold disdain and contempt for the world and everyone in it. He's a broken man too impotent and self-loathing to do anything about it. I've also wondered the same thing. Stephenie Meyer absolutely stinks at character development. @tim Willard: I'd love to read that epic if you do decide to write it using WolfGod's character/conflict sketches.
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Post by lopez12417 on Aug 15, 2013 18:06:03 GMT -8
The one thing that truly irks me about Esme (and all the characters with tragic backstories; I.E., the women) to no ends is that everything that happened to her. Her husband rampant abuse, the loss of her baby, her attempted suicide, her becoming a vampire; none of it, and I mean none of it, has absolutely any effect on her personality or on who she is and how she views the world or how she views people for that matter.
My mother (who died several years ago) went through the very same thing that Esme did (minus the suicide)her second husband abused her and beat her; my mom had to run away from the bastard with my aunt's and my birth mother(long story) on a bus once when the guy found her. Luckily, he didn't see her. She also lost a baby as well not too long after she was born. Up until the day she died, my mother could not talk about her dead daughter Rebecca without nearly breaking into tears. The pain never went away after all those years so I find it almost impossible that ESME, who had a child, would call her baby a poor tiny thing.
It doesn't make any sense to me how she make something(something that she apparently wants seeing that is all women are good for in "Twilight" according to SMeyer)as so non-existent; she talks about her child like his life didn't matter because now she(Esme)has new children to fill his place, YAY! It's just further proof that how naive and childish Meyer (and how heartless and uncaring Esme is) is. She has no concept what it is like to lose something you love so much and that meant so much to you so young; it is tragic and heartbreaking. It is not something you brush aside as if it were nothing; DOMESTIC ABUSE is not something that you brush aside as if it is nothing.
Carlisle turned her against her will into a vampire and just because she had a crush on him when she was sixteen, she trusted him almost immediately and fell in love with him quickly. Where is the PTSD from the abuse? From her dead child? Did the vampirization suddenly erase all her problems and make her a blank slate of a doormat of a housewife? Why did none of this affect her? It is as if SMeyer thinks that finding a man and true love (my ass!) fixes all your problems and makes them go away.It doesn't; it doesn't make them go away, my mother could vouch for that, and finding a new man years later didn't make all that happened to her suddenly vanish. It didn't make her forget about her dead child who never had a chance to truly grow and have a life and she never got over; and she never forgot her.
(I apologize for the long rant that had almost nothing to do with this character. It’s just... this particular character has a backstory and history similar to someone I loved and it just gets me that SMeyer treats something so tragic (much like Rosalie's backstory) like it is this inconsequential thing)
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Post by Lady of Himring on Aug 16, 2013 22:57:14 GMT -8
^I'm terribly sorry your mother suffered all that, I hope she is doing better now. I know it's a long process, but I wish her the best.
Actually, on Esme not being bothered that Carlisle had turned her, there's an explanation for that: When she was young she fell and broke her leg, guess who her doctor was? She had a crush on him and Carlisle later recognized her in the morgue, where her "heartbeat was so faint" so he turned her.
In Midnight Sun, Esme isn't only happy for Edward, she's in joy that he had found a possible mate, Edward clearly says "Esme's joy" after hearing Alice's "I'm going to love her Jazz!". Edward further says that no matter what, she'll always side with him.
Also, none of the Vamps (except Rosalie) seem to have a trauma due to how their lives ended and the vampiric turn. None. Esme is surprisingly absent too, during the whole Reneesme business of raising her, that's Rosalie. Because seriously, other than give Carlisle a mate, Esme doesn't do much, really.
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Post by lopez12417 on Aug 17, 2013 1:24:15 GMT -8
^I'm terribly sorry your mother suffered all that, I hope she is doing better now. I know it's a long process, but I wish her the best.
Actually, on Esme not being bothered that Carlisle had turned her, there's an explanation for that: When she was young she fell and broke her leg, guess who her doctor was? She had a crush on him and Carlisle later recognized her in the morgue, where her "heartbeat was so faint" so he turned her.
In Midnight Sun, Esme isn't only happy for Edward, she's in joy that he had found a possible mate, Edward clearly says "Esme's joy" after hearing Alice's "I'm going to love her Jazz!". Edward further says that no matter what, she'll always side with him.
Also, none of the Vamps (except Rosalie) seem to have a trauma due to how their lives ended and the vampiric turn. None. Esme is surprisingly absent too, during the whole Reneesme business of raising her, that's Rosalie. Because seriously, other than give Carlisle a mate, Esme doesn't do much, really. I'm sorry I didn't mention this, my mother passed away four years ago from cancer; but thank you, she did do better later on and was happy and had a nice life. About Esme meeting Carlisle, I'm sorry I forgot to mention that during my rant that part of the story it just slipped my mind at the time. I just find it hard to believe after all the abuse she went through that she would so willingly trust a man she met only once when she was sixteen years old. A man who just turned her into a vampire against her will and fall in love with him so quickly it just doesn't make any sense to me at all (then again, this is SMeyer and she knows nothing about people and what abuse can do to them). Esme always felt like a non-entity to me, as if she wasn't really a character and more or less just there to fill in the blank area, and as you said, give Carlisle a mate. She doesn't really contribute anything to the story and could have been easily combined with one of the other female Cullens as they did with Lauren and Jessica in the film and Eric and Ben as well. I also find it sad that Rosalie is also the only vampire we meet that has suffered any serious backlash from her being turned against her will. I don't care how special Meyer think being a vampire is you can't erase the kind of trauma she went through by finding love or being turned immortal against your will. It just does not work that way. I don't know it just seems to me that she's rather ignorant and at times, rather insensitive of how abuse effect people.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Aug 18, 2013 20:54:04 GMT -8
^My sincere condolences on your mother's passing, may she be at peace.
This is Meyer, logic be damned. In her view, if you aren't in a relationship, you don't matter, what better example do you need than Bella, who went all zombie because Ed left her?
Why would Esme be any better? She's not a fully crafted character, she has a sad and tragic backstory that was swept under the "true love" rug that Meyer applies to everyone (unless you're Leah Clearwater). It's sad that only Rosalie does remember well her suffering and it's low that Edward bitches at her in MS about her killings. But, Esme isn't there to add dimension to the story, she's there to be there.
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Post by EquinoxSolstice92 on Apr 26, 2014 16:55:42 GMT -8
This is an old thread but I felt the need to say something. For some reason, Esme reminds me of a typical Stepford Wife. Seriously, she's perfect, motherly, she cooks, cleans, and is pretty. She's like an ideal mother to Bella. I could be wrong but I just had to say it.
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Post by arcanius on Apr 27, 2014 0:44:18 GMT -8
^ Bah, she's like so "average-person-y" and so "mortal" and like totally "human" blergh. What of her does live up to her majesty Bella's standarts
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Post by bellegold89 on Apr 27, 2014 13:53:32 GMT -8
My condolences to lopez12417 - your mothers story is heart breaking.
I agree with all the posters who say Esme is so unrealistic - she should have still been suffering PTSD when turned and would hate Carlisle for not letting her die like she wanted. Why is she suddenly the perfect little wife for this man she doesn't know? What about the man who fathered her child - what happened to him? She should be mourning her lost love not creating a perfect family with the stranger she just met and not looking back ever. She's supposed to be this amazing mother and wife, but she's already let one family go.
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Post by marienomad on Apr 28, 2014 4:01:04 GMT -8
Why does Bella seem to respect Esme more as a mother than her own mother?
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Post by bellegold89 on Apr 28, 2014 4:11:12 GMT -8
Why does Bella seem to respect Esme more as a mother than her own mother? Exactly. She doesn't deserve it at all.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Apr 29, 2014 19:52:36 GMT -8
marienomad: Because she's a vampire and immortal and pretty. Which is the only things Bella cares for and respects and yearns for. Think about it, Bella's mom kept a roof over her head, fed her well and by all acounts loved her, she never lacked the basic things in life nor she was ever without good clothes. Bella's reaction? My mom's an idiot who need someone to care for her.
Just look how dismissive she is of her mother's worry in Twilight. She's so annoyed at Renee sending her an email to check if she was well and had arrived well that Bella literally forces herself to answer, or else Renee would call Charlie! How dare she!
My condolences to lopez12417 - your mothers story is heart breaking. I agree with all the posters who say Esme is so unrealistic - she should have still been suffering PTSD when turned and would hate Carlisle for not letting her die like she wanted. Why is she suddenly the perfect little wife for this man she doesn't know? What about the man who fathered her child - what happened to him? She should be mourning her lost love not creating a perfect family with the stranger she just met and not looking back ever. She's supposed to be this amazing mother and wife, but she's already let one family go.
Thank you for mentioning the PTSD, funny how all the vampire save Rosalie have forgotten the trauma that caused them to be turned. Seriously, they all speak of it as if it were nothing.
And we don't know much about Esme's husband, other than he was an abusive husband and that's why she left him and later lost the baby and proceded to kill herself. But the moment she sees Carlisle is all tru wuv! Seriously, in the words of Zax, Meyer is Hack.
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