To make the characters "truly good"

[Deleted]

So I was thinking, to make these characters truly good people (the Cullens mostly), Meyer could have made Carlisle a volunteer doctor who works in Africa for the poor. The other cullens could have donated money to the poor and needy of America as well instead of spending them on fashion and high school. What do you think Meyer could have done with her vampires to make them truly good ones?

[Tim Willard]

Taken a creative writing course and passed it?

[Deleted]

Mar 12, 2011 14:58:54 GMT -8 Tim Willard said:

Taken a creative writing course and passed it?

Lol, I mean what she could have made them do to make them truly nice vampires. You know, instead of going to high school, over and over again? XD

[TrippedUp]

Mar 12, 2011 14:58:54 GMT -8 Tim Willard said:

Taken a creative writing course and passed it?

Karma.

[Lady of Himring]

Mar 12, 2011 14:58:54 GMT -8 Tim Willard said:

Taken a creative writing course and passed it?

Win + Karma.

I think something that could help is if they dropped the snotty attitude and stoped the "I'm above you" shit.

[sterilizedwerewolf]

Mar 12, 2011 14:26:26 GMT -8 @sonata said:

What do you think Meyer could have done with her vampires to make them truly good ones?

Well, Meyer could have handed her character rights for the Cullens over to us, and then we could have exploited them in a million billion zillion kajillion ways. The only limit is the entire fucking planet's anti-Twilighters' imaginations. =D

Of course, we're trying to do that anyway, slowly but surely, bit by bit.

Twilight, and the fandom, is dead. Now, we just need to claim ownership rights over the Cullens "because we'd make more responsible parents".

[Blue Suede Shoes]

Meyer could have had her characters value the lives of others - including strangers - no less than they value their own. She could have made them willing to sacrifice their own safety and comfort to preserve those lives. That's really the bottom line for me.

She could have gone farther and made them truly great people. Even a basic sense of compassion and mercy could have made them good, though.

[casandraelf]

I might consider writing a fanfic that focuses more on the less annoying sparklepires. Hell, since I started playing Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate I entertained the idea of writing a fanfic where the Cullens encounter my Jaggi obsessed hunter Erika. Since the idea is that the Monster Hunter universe is a Post-post Apocalypse(society destroying apocalypse occurred, the restoration period has occurred and society has assumed a normalcy of some sort) on Earth, the Cullens have lost all their riches and are forced to start over, especially since life has mutated to produce gigantic monsters. The less annoying Cullens like Emmett and Rosalie wind up teaming up with Erika. Also, they're stuck with Renesmee and a zombie Jacob.

[Lady Phoenix]

The problem with the "Sparklypricks" (as Erod lovingly calls them), is that Meyer esssentially forces the readers to believe that these guys are supposed to be good with no actual evidence backing it up. Hell, most of their attitudes would be considered evil in comic books.

Then again, maybe they really are "good" in bella's perspective . . . in a way that Bella is a complete SOCIOPATH. It wouldn't surprise me there, since this is in her perspective.

If we want them to be truly good, they're going to need a complete character overhaul: drop the narcissism, drop the passive attitude towards bloodsucking vampires, actually DO some heroic things for OTHER people besides themselves and Bella, and actually do stuff to help society.

[casandraelf]

What better way to do something good than to kill monsters wrecking the biosphere?

[makoeyes]

Fight crime. And Carlisle could work at a free clinic, as if he needs the money. Do we even know if they've given ANYTHING to charity? There's no evidence that they ever do so throughout the books, so that's just another they could've done to make themselves good people.

Another thing is that they could've put a stop to other Meyerpires killing people. They were all fine with the Meyerpires in the third book murdering hundreds of people until they realized they were a threat to Bella.

[Chaotic Neutral]

Part of the issue is the sheer hypocrisy of these characters. Edward looks down on humans for being shallow or thinking about sex, but at the same time, he's convinced he loves Bella based on her smell and thinks about MURDERING HER.

And while we're on the topic of murder, what really puts Edward in the "emo" category is how he wangsts about what a monster he is because he's a sparkling dildo. What about the fact that he's murdered people? Oh, well yeah, I guess there's that, too. But it's barely given any real note other than as a reason for Edward to be "tortured", as though the unwarranted murder of people who are absolutely no threat to him is somehow a burden on HIM. Wait, what's that? Oh, sorry, apparently the needless murders weren't unwarranted because, by power of his pointless mind-raping capabilities, he's given the easy-out excuse that "they were bad people anyway". But he's still a monster. Not because murder is wrong or because he stole away people's lives just because he could, but simply because of what the delicious act of killing a helpless human means for HIM. No concern is given to those he killed or their loved ones. No regret is shown for his actions. And above all, he does not, in ANY way, even attempt to redeem himself for his past sins. Or even...y'know...TRY to help people.

A surefire way that would have made Edward a "truly good" person? And awesome? Have him go the "Angel" route and save people. If he really wants redemption THAT badly, maybe saving some lives to make up for the ones he took would be a good start? Or even just HELPING people? Well, people BESIDES Bella? Or how about using that dues ex machina mind-reading powers to solve problems instead of just a throw away excuse to hate on people who don't sparkle and/or aren't as pretty as he is?

Seriously, if Edward had been a detective or a secret vigilante, I probably would have loved his character. I don't mind if a character has flaws, just as long as they're not moping around all day going on and on about how "tragic" they are (because of their own actions no less) and doing......NOTHING about it! If you're so upset, try freaking DOING SOMETHING!

[arcanius]

Here is how I'll improve..... Bella, and this really came to my mind just now, Bella that horrible collection of despised idiocy can be transformed into a good character with only one change, let's look into bella

She is the most male dependent, uncaring, selfish, self-centered, pretentious, idiotic, drama addicted, whiny little ***** that has EVER existed in the universe of literature. She is supposed to represent an everyday teenage girl, if so - meyer really has no idea which character is the bloodsucking monstrosity. She's "troubled" even though she doesn't have a single problem, gets a crush on a boy and decides "I wanna marry him" even though she's not even out of high school yet. She wants to be turned into a vampire on which subject everyone said "You'll throw your life away", but ofcourse at the omniscient age of 17 she already knows EXACTLY what she wants, aren't people glad that they followed the ideas they thought that could not go wrong when they were 17, oh yeah 17 the age that makes you impervious to wrong. The boy just tries to leave her stating it's "to save her" but she just constantly endangers her life because of that, she's jumping off cliffs just so he could notice her. Great gods I just don't have anything to answer this one..... Well girls, if your boyfriend leaves you - jump off a cliff, there's no way that could go wrong in any way, sure you might die a little but atleast that'll teach him. Even when I'm making fun of it, it still hurts. Then she gets another boy who is kind of supportive, more caring and a little smarter but then dumps him because the first guy looked at her. And great Odin how does she even fall for a guy with about as much personality as a sea urchin. On top of all that, an entire war is going on all because of her, and she doesn't even care, not even in the least. Well for a moment there was this "Oh maybe I'm not worth it" but then "Oh well, I'm worth it - supermodel boys carry me". And when her boyfriend FINALLY agreed to marry her, she got around with the other guy YET AGAIN. Com on, what a needy, whiny little.... Seriously thats actually kinda scary when you look into it, and then IT HIT ME

The one change Bella needs to have is:
She needs to do all this intentionally, she needs to be a villain, manupulative, sinister and willing to do all this just so she could achieve her own selfish goals, a psychotic evil mind, then don't you think she'd have made an awesome villain.

[Lady of Himring]

Jun 8, 2013 3:57:07 GMT -8 Chaotic Neutral said:

Part of the issue is the sheer hypocrisy of these characters. Edward looks down on humans for being shallow or thinking about sex, but at the same time, he's convinced he loves Bella based on her smell and thinks about MURDERING HER.

And while we're on the topic of murder, what really puts Edward in the "emo" category is how he wangsts about what a monster he is because he's a sparkling dildo. What about the fact that he's murdered people? Oh, well yeah, I guess there's that, too. But it's barely given any real note other than as a reason for Edward to be "tortured", as though the unwarranted murder of people who are absolutely no threat to him is somehow a burden on HIM. Wait, what's that? Oh, sorry, apparently the needless murders weren't unwarranted because, by power of his pointless mind-raping capabilities, he's given the easy-out excuse that "they were bad people anyway". But he's still a monster. Not because murder is wrong or because he stole away people's lives just because he could, but simply because of what the delicious act of killing a helpless human means for HIM. No concern is given to those he killed or their loved ones. No regret is shown for his actions. And above all, he does not, in ANY way, even attempt to redeem himself for his past sins. Or even...y'know...TRY to help people.

A surefire way that would have made Edward a "truly good" person? And awesome? Have him go the "Angel" route and save people. If he really wants redemption THAT badly, maybe saving some lives to make up for the ones he took would be a good start? Or even just HELPING people? Well, people BESIDES Bella? Or how about using that dues ex machina mind-reading powers to solve problems instead of just a throw away excuse to hate on people who don't sparkle and/or aren't as pretty as he is?

Seriously, if Edward had been a detective or a secret vigilante, I probably would have loved his character. I don't mind if a character has flaws, just as long as they're not moping around all day going on and on about how "tragic" they are (because of their own actions no less) and doing......NOTHING about it! If you're so upset, try freaking DOING SOMETHING!

^Basically this.
Hell, the Cullens are rich! They could make small donations to charitable organizations, they could buy the groceries they do and instead of trashing them, give them away to people who need it. They could donate the clothes they only use once (seriously, how ridiculous are they?) to shelters.

There are many ways they could truly make a difference but no, they are just going through high school over and over again, being disdainful of humanity and having a holier-than-thou attitude because they are so above humanity they don't give a shit.

[makoeyes]

Jul 12, 2013 18:11:47 GMT -8 Lady of Himring said:

They could donate the clothes they only use once (seriously, how ridiculous are they?) to shelters.

[/font][/font]
[/quote]
It's unbelievably ridiculous. Considering that Alice would of course only buy the expensive, designer crap, each article of clothing would be over a hundred, if not hundreds of dollars. People have calculated designer prices of JUST shirts, shoes, underwear and pants, and the Cullens would be spending well over 2 million dollars every year.

[Deleted]

Impossible since they need to kill.

[Lady of Himring]

Jul 17, 2013 23:19:58 GMT -8 makoeyes said:

Jul 12, 2013 18:11:47 GMT -8 Lady of Himring said:

They could donate the clothes they only use once (seriously, how ridiculous are they?) to shelters.

[/font][/font]
[/quote]
It's unbelievably ridiculous. Considering that Alice would of course only buy the expensive, designer crap, each article of clothing would be over a hundred, if not hundreds of dollars. People have calculated designer prices of JUST shirts, shoes, underwear and pants, and the Cullens would be spending well over 2 million dollars every year.[/quote]

I was out of sheer curiosity poking at Neiman Marcus and made myself a designer closet using the Cullen thought, in very few items I had near 10k in just one store. And that is just me, now multiply it by 8 and it's unholy.

And this is downright offensive when you think they only wear it once. I don't begrudge rich/artist/whatever people who do whatever the hell they want with their money, but in a series where the character are being praised as "good" people is offensive how materialistic they are, not to mention that godawful attitude they have. I still have Alice's quote in my head from Midnight Sun "Think of them as people Jas". I mean, come on.

[marienomad]

Well, I would have Carlisle try to study all he could about vampires. How the venom works? Where do they come from? How could their bodies handle some of the modern weapons like nuclear bombs? And maybe later on, have him study shapeshifters. Why they change? How does imprinting work?

In Interview with the Vampire, the main characters were at least curious about their origins and tried to find out where vampires come from.

I think that Alice donated all the fashion clothes to Goodwill. Yay.

Did the Cullens try to hunt down the vampires killing the townsfolk in the first book of Twilight? I'm not sure.

[Madame Celeste]

^Not as far as I remember. If I recall correctly, there was no mention whatsoever of said vampires until after they met with the Cullens and James became interested in eating Bella.

[Jean-Thomas Renault]

Since you specifically mention the Cullens in your query of "what makes characters truly good," I take it to mean you are wondering if the Cullens could have been crafted in a way to encourage memory. To make the characters truly good would seem to invoke a moral question, and so I will interpret the question in a philosophical way. Now, hypothetically, the Cullens could be called "good" even if they spend money on fashion instead of giving away money to poor Africans or Americans (depending upon which branch of ethics you wanted to appeal to, for instance a certain interpretation of utilitarianism or perhaps deontology.) Even then, you would have to establish why it is you think that the Cullens are morally obligated to do these things. In any case, supposing Meyer had actually opted for making the Cullens this way, I'm not sure establishing whether or not they are "good" is so simple. For instance, some people would say that giving to those in need does not in itself mean the characters could be considered "good" according to any rigorous definition one might propose. Other people would say that such action alone is sufficient to ground the claim. So when one judges whether or not the Cullens could be good if they acted in particular ways depends a great deal on which ethical branch one is persuaded to follow.

[Chaotic Neutral]

^Part of the issue here of the Cullens isn't just that they're supposed to be "good". A person can be "good" without donating to charities and whatnot. The problem comes in that not only were the Cullens expressed to be "good", but per Meyer, they are also supposed to be more moral and righteous than any human ever to exist (keeping in mind that humans had Gandhi, MLK, Mother Teresa, and Jesus). The comparisons are made that Mike Newton, for example, is portrayed as "bad" for having sexual thoughts about Bella, as opposed to Edward, who is portrayed as "good" in comparison, when HIS thoughts regarding Bella consisted of exactly how he wants to full out murder her and drink the sweet sweet nectar that is her blood; and the only thing that stopped him from doing so and slaughtering an entire classroom of innocent people TO do so was NOT that it was morally wrong to kill or that innocent people would be harmed in the process or even that doing so would ruin the whole "pretending to be human" bit he and his family were trying to portray. No, the only reason he ultimately gave up on trying to eat Bella at that moment was because he realized that by the time it would take to slaughter everybody else in the classroom and get to her delicious blood, it would have gone cold before he could drink it. There is no "good" to be found anywhere in those thoughts or reasoning. And he is not a "good" person for deciding NOT to kill someone based on that.

But even if we were to ignore that glaringly obvious issue in favor of the "wasted clothes" problem the series presents, there are other aspects to consider in that argument. Sure, a person who does not donate to charity is not necessarily considered to not be "good" because of it, and being as how they bought the clothes, they should be free to do what they wish with them even if it means only wearing them once before throwing them away and contributing to the waste and garbage issue that already plagues the humanity they are supposed to be considered so much better than, I'll go ahead and grant you that. The problem, however, is that they are not just buying and ultimately wasting new designer clothes and items that they won't even make use of, they essentially--by all accounts according to the laws and morals that they themselves have supposedly chosen to live by that says that insider trading is BAD--are STEALING to ultimately waste new designer clothes and items that they won't even make use of. Theft is bad enough under most circumstances, but even with leeway given for the situation involved, exactly WHAT circumstances require added theft of more money than they truly need and already have just to buy things they are only going to use once before throwing away? Furthermore, even ignoring the laws that say not to do insider trading to make a profit, Alice is essentially abusing her power for a profit. A profit that they don't need and ultimately is used to buy and waste more things that they don't need. And to what purpose does all this theft and waste serve? It is not to do "good" deeds. It is not out of any true necessity. No, if anything, it really only seems to be done for the sake of showing off how rich and "cool" they are, which seems to fall more in lines with the noted sins of "greed" and "pride", neither of which are considered by any means "good".

[malva]

Mar 12, 2011 16:31:24 GMT -8 Blue Suede Shoes said:

Meyer could have had her characters value the lives of others - including strangers - no less than they value their own. She could have made them willing to sacrifice their own safety and comfort to preserve those lives. That's really the bottom line for me.

She could have gone farther and made them truly great people. Even a basic sense of compassion and mercy could have made them good, though.

This.

All you see is Edward despising people for having completely human urges they can't control, when you should judge people by their decisions. You know, like how HE desires to eat people but doesn't? Not that his contempt for humanity really stops him, it's HIS ass going to hell he's worried about. Yes, it's really fair of someone who matured and learnt self control over a hundred years to judge teenagers for acting like teenagers. Hippocrite much?

Also, he's not in the place to judge people for being materialistic, when other people actually have to WORK for money to SURVIVE. Not like he has an obsession with expensive cars, or that he lives in a dream house with everything money can buy, including designer clothes they only wear once. (btw, where is that in the books? I trust you guys on this, I'd just like to find out why the hell they do that).
Guess it's right that you hate about others most what you hate about yourself. He's not only guilty of the exact same things himself, he also has the least excuses for it. He doesn't have money worries, he has more he could spend, he didn't even work for it AND much of it is even stolen! In fact, they SHOULDN'T live in luxury if all that talk about "blending in" in a small town like Forks is to be taken seriously. Bella instantly notices their car in the parking lot as well as the Cullens on the first day, and everyone goes "oh yeah, THESE freaks". The clothes-wasting is not only pointless, it would make people wonder even more what's the deal with them and how they pay this. These guys make worse undercover agents than Inspector Gadget!

And let's not forget their reactions when they find out there's violent vampire murderings going on in Seattle. Surely they could at least go investigate? Nope, they let countless innocents face a fate worse than death, which some of the Cullens believe to be the damnation of the soul. In fact, the instant they find out they can take these guys, their mouths water at the opportunity to tear dudes apart. Mislead, confused, damned dudes who painfully died through their enemy. Oh sure, they left one alive. And what an effort they took to keep her that way. Did Carlisle lose sleep over her or prayed for her soul?

I didn't even realise they were supposed to be "more human than human". Are you sure? Switch any of these people they ripped off, killed or left to die with Bella and see if they would have acted different. They have done NOTHING an average family with their possibilities couldn't have done better, but plenty of awful, criminal, hippocritic and selfish crap.

[BW-VTfan0]

For one thing they could have dropped the "I'm hot shit, you're not" act..

[trandafir]

What makes me facepalm is that Carlisle is a doctor.Just think how many great things he could do,especially since he is immortal.
And if Bella could sounds less disrespectful to her parents.She treats her mother like a childish brat,unable to take care of herself.Sorry dear,but,last time I checked,it wasn't your mother who jumped off a cliff just because her boyfriend broke up with her,and neither is she the one who wants to become a bloodsucking monster,always dependent on her man.
Need I add more when it comes to Charlie,who was the only character I like in the whole story?(if there is a real story to tell)

[Georgaina]

I don't think Carlisle could be in Africa with regards to the stupid sparkling, but he could however easily use his skills to find a cure for diseases like particular forms of cancer. Indeed like Lady of Himring, they can donate clothes, money, whatever to all sorts of orginisations! You'd think that's what they would do by default, since we are supposed to believe they are oh-so good and nice.

Then again, how many of her millions has Meyer ever donated? She made a fund for a friend with cancer, and she donated only part of the earnings of her crappy Eclipse fanfiction to the American Red Cross I believe. It seems as though she doesn't believe in charity for some reason.


What I always thought would be fun was if the characters just did the kind of things Bella so often liked to claim would make them what they were. Bella to be a loving, accepting person. Carlisle to be compassionate to all those around him, Edward to be extremely smart, etc.

Alternatively they could've just teamed up with other vampires and killed the Volturi off, since no one likes them and they don't do anything besides eating tourists.