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Post by blackrose97 on Dec 6, 2011 11:31:55 GMT -8
Rensemee Fault: a plot twist evolving a baby that is makes so little sense that it actually splits the canon universe into pieces. The fault causes earth quakes of stupidity as it forces it's characters to bend the laws made by the author to accommodate the child.
It wanted to make a places so everyone can talk specifically about this spawn and all the horrible things that happen just because Smeyer needed to add her. Her's some of my problems.
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Post by Lady Phoenix on Dec 6, 2011 11:40:14 GMT -8
The Problems:
1. Basically the whole bio fail around her. Normally dhampires are explained away as magic and usually can't breed (I think). Sadly, Meyer keeps making a bunch of crazy shit up in order to explain her existence, pissing off anyone who has any sort of knowledge on biology. Just say, "I wanted them to have kids because I thought they'd be perfect with a kid". lame excuse aside, it's better tha vampire venom, werewolf genes, blah blah WTF I don't even logic
2. The whole "Grow up in 7 years". First off, any sort of mutation should probably cause the hellspawn to take LONGER to develop. Second, it gives this very wrong explanation about her and Jacob dating. It's still pedophilia -- even when she looks 18. I heard in some discussion this was following the Mormonism "Soul Mate" idea where one is BORN with the destiny of being a guy's mate (which basically ecnouraged many accounts of child marriage).
3. The fact Bella just dumps the little girl on Rosalie and Pedowolf. First off, it's child endangerment and abandonment. It also makes Hellspawn LESS of a character but rather an accessory to say "Bella's marriage is happy and perfect and she'll be the best little daughter because the family is perfect". Hellspawn is basically groomed to be just a doll, not a living being.
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Post by vampirekites on Dec 6, 2011 16:11:46 GMT -8
I'm just going to add on to your comments.The Problems:
1. Basically the whole bio fail around her. Normally dhampires are explained away as magic and usually can't breed (I think). Sadly, Meyer keeps making a bunch of crazy shit up in order to explain her existence, pissing off anyone who has any sort of knowledge on biology. Just say, "I wanted them to have kids because I thought they'd be perfect with a kid". lame excuse aside, it's better tha vampire venom, werewolf genes, blah blah WTF I don't even logic.
If she wasn't trying to show off by giving us a lame version of science, I'd have no problem with their child. Like you said, dhampires are pretty prevalent to vampire lore, but they aren't explained fully as to give a mysterious aspect to them. Supernatural is just that, something that can't be fully explained. When you go overboard with the explanations, it gets less and less realistic because too many question pop up without resolving them.
2. The whole "Grow up in 7 years". First off, any sort of mutation should probably cause the hellspawn to take LONGER to develop. Second, it gives this very wrong explanation about her and Jacob dating. It's still pedophilia -- even when she looks 18. I heard in some discussion this was following the Mormonism "Soul Mate" idea where one is BORN with the destiny of being a guy's mate (which basically ecnouraged many accounts of child marriage).
It also seems quite convenient that Nessie would stop aging at 18, exactly the same age group in which Smeyer is obsessed with. It's also a way to speed up the process in order for Jake to have his woman without having to wait so long for her. It's creepy no matter how you slice it.
3. The fact Bella just dumps the little girl on Rosalie and Pedowolf. First off, it's child endangerment and abandonment. It also makes Hellspawn LESS of a character but rather an accessory to say "Bella's marriage is happy and perfect and she'll be the best little daughter because the family is perfect". Hellspawn is basically groomed to be just a doll, not a living being.
Exactly. Why put in having a child if she's going to be dumped onto other people while Bella and Edward have lame vampire sex. There was no reason for Bella to get pregnant besides more conflict during the pregnancy, some gore during the birth scene, more "ooh, aah!" for her Mary Sue character, and then some more conflict at the end with the Volturi. She had no other way of creating tension because then it would have stopped her canned formula of "Conflict, Conflict, More Conflict, Resolution, More Conflict".
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Post by blackrose97 on Dec 6, 2011 16:21:43 GMT -8
The
2. The whole "Grow up in 7 years". First off, any sort of mutation should probably cause the hellspawn to take LONGER to develop. Second, it gives this very wrong explanation about her and Jacob dating. It's still pedophilia -- even when she looks 18. I heard in some discussion this was following the Mormonism "Soul Mate" idea where one is BORN with the destiny of being a guy's mate (which basically ecnouraged many accounts of child marriage).
. I said it, the idea made me think to make a new thread about it of course Rosalie wants to take care of it for the three years that it's going to need it. that's all she ever wanted in her life! I prefer it that way, Bella's a terrible mother. At least Rosalie has the maturity to raise a child. Bella, especially since she's know "frozen" in time, can't even handle herself. She would just stare at the child before asking for Edward. Bella has no intentions on making friends or no interest to share with her daughter. Remember when she got annoyed that a guy kept saying sorry for almost killing her? God forbid Rensemee did something like try to engage her mother in a conversation, Bella would tear her to shreds. Bella also gets annoyed at childish behavior like her mom, kids are flighty and weird. The love dinosaurs and monkeys one day, rainbows and fighting turtles the next. Her whole "birth" doesn't make sence at all. Why does Bella need to drink blood for her?One, the baby already as a supply of blood the is taken form it's mother, Renesmee already has all the blood to snake on. Two, Bella-a human- is filled with the stuff! Why didn't the baby just chew her way out? Three, since she's half human, half vampire, why does Renesmee need so much or any blood at all? the nutrition found in the food Bella eats should be enough. it would be more reasonable for Bella to eat rich in vitamin foods and a lots of raw meat. |
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Post by lacrimosadoll on Dec 6, 2011 16:24:02 GMT -8
And don't forget that it was the way for Edward to turn Bella into a vampire without having to give in to Bella. He is forced to turn her into a vampire at that moment.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 16:37:56 GMT -8
3. The fact Bella just dumps the little girl on Rosalie and Pedowolf. First off, it's child endangerment and abandonment. It also makes Hellspawn LESS of a character but rather an accessory to say "Bella's marriage is happy and perfect and she'll be the best little daughter because the family is perfect". Hellspawn is basically groomed to be just a doll, not a living being.In any real situation, Rosalie would further resent Bella for having a child while she can't. But of course everyone is suppose to LOVE Bella one way or another. And wasn't she willing to sacrifice herself for the child, and she just passes the thing off? Fail. |
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EarthDragon88
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Post by EarthDragon88 on Dec 7, 2011 17:16:30 GMT -8
Everything about Renesmee is a big shortcut:
-The rapid growth and intelligence from birth allows Bella to conveniently miss all the most frustrating parts of raising a child (sleepless nights, nappy changing, tantrums that you can't solve etc)
-Jacob gets a girlfriend so Team Jacob girls are happy
-The fact that she sleeps peacefully at night while she doesn't need to sleep anymore allows her to spend all night screwing her bastard of a husband
-Post-vamp infertility means she doesn't need to worry about protection
Then there's the obvious wish-fulfilment, isn't part of Mormonism to have two kids at most? So Stephenie isn't allowed more by her own rules right? Since fate has dealt her two sons, while she wants a daughter, she gives Bella-sue her one too.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Dec 15, 2011 21:28:38 GMT -8
-Post-vamp infertility means she doesn't need to worry about protection
I'd like to expand this: She broke her own canon by simply getting Bella pregnant. Edward's been a "vampire" for a century, he's not some newborn; and she made it all worst by dragging science into this.
Dhampirs have been around for a long while; the problem with Bella's pregancy was the use of science and all the canon breaking.
Also, what was the point of having Bella have a kid other than giving Jacob a "mate" and having Rosalie do a 180 with Bella? None. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2011 14:56:21 GMT -8
Biggest problem with Renesmee: She is going to be the most unloved creature in the Cullen clan.
Bella talks about how they worship her, adore her, give her everything she wants--but they never love her. Nobody does. The scene that comes to mind is when Bella and Edward come back from having sex and find her on the floor just twisting good silver into knots for no reason and everyone in the house is just staring at her. They aren't playing with her, telling her not to destroy property, no--they're just staring. They aren't even saying anything. She's an object, an idol--she is not a person. And that is sad.
However, to be frank, one of my biggest problems with the baby twist Meyer threw in there is actually how Rosalie factored into it. So many people who talked about how that was Rosalie's big moment to be kind to Bella and her turn-around missed the fact that Rosalie was not protecting Bella. At all. Bella was an object in that whole part. Actually, that's wrong. Bella was an incubator. Bella was the thing that housed what Rosalie actually wanted--a baby. Rosalie's character twist for that particular scene (since she's a new goddamn character every time we see her) was that of an obsessed and crazed individual who saw a chance to finally get a baby and was using Bella to get it--and made it clear at every turn that not only was she fine with Bella dying for said baby, but actually wanted her to die so she could have it. Hell, the way it was written, Rosalie was actively going to kill Bella for her baby. She's the one who viciously stabbed Bella with a scalpel, and then, despite being fine this whole time with her bloodlust, suddenly decides she has to attack Bella at that moment?
It gets worse when we finally see her downstairs with Renesmee. Baby is out and what is she doing? Playing mommy. Pretending it's hers. Feeding it, loving on it, performing all of those first emotional bonding experiences that mothers are supposed to do with their children. The logical conclusion to this should have been that Rosalie took Renesmee and ran--just stole the baby because that was what she wanted and that was what Meyer had written.
NONE OF THIS IS BROUGHT UP AGAIN. Rosalie and Bella are just bestest friends from then on out and everybody is happy and nobody ever brings up the fact that Rosalie went baby-stealing psychopath intent on killing Bella to get the sprog she always wanted.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Dec 24, 2011 17:07:27 GMT -8
^Apparently Renesmee somehow magically fixed that, too. Just like everything else--the love triangle, the werewolf/vampire conflict, making Bella even more special for being immortal AND getting to be an actual "female", and adding a last-minute conflict to make the series appear more dramatic than it needed to be.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 17:31:00 GMT -8
Renesmee is just a tool for Meyer to say, "Oh, look! Everyone got their happy ending because Jacob is going to have a GIRLFRIEND!" This is one of the many reasons Twilight is ridiculous. The most prominent theme in it is that the most important thing in the world is to have a significant other. I mean, how convenient is it that all the Cullens are married to each other?
Like you guys said, though. Jacob is "in love" with an infant, and he plans on being with her forever as soon as she's born. What if the baby had been a boy? What if the baby grew up to have a terrible, hateful personality?
NOAP, not even options. Not in Meyerworld! :/
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Post by blackrose97 on Jan 1, 2012 19:12:57 GMT -8
^
What if? That thing is a a spoiled bitchy Bella Brat in the making. Reneseme is loved by everyone and thing. No one can resist her and even if they did, she could implant loving, adoring thoughts of herself in other's brains. Look at her parents.
Bella has no concept of what true rejection is and has people kissing her ass out the wazoo. She can't handle not having her own way, neither can Edward. That abusive SOB, he will probably lock the girl away if she wanted to date( especially anyone who isn't Jacob.). A girl raised in the environment that tends to her own superiority and specialness won't be humble. If she goes to school, she will know that she is above all the lowly humans.
The Cullens will give her everything she wants without a second thought and people like Alice will stress the need for material objects. Her vanity will be prized( awesome twist if she was ugly by vamp standards but you know it would never happen) and she will she that beautiful people are worshiped. She won't ever have to work a day in her life.
In just seven years her body and mind will go through the complexities of growing up. What traits will she care into her permanent teen-aged body? Can she, in that short time, make the important milestones that signify a healthy, productive life? Probably not.
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Post by blackrose97 on Jan 1, 2012 19:14:40 GMT -8
^
What if? That thing is a a spoiled bitchy Bella Brat in the making. Reneseme is loved by everyone and thing. No one can resist her and even if they did, she could implant loving, adoring thoughts of herself in other's brains. Look at her parents.
Bella has no concept of what true rejection is and has people kissing her ass out the wazoo. She can't handle not having her own way, neither can Edward. That abusive SOB, he will probably lock the girl away if she wanted to date( especially anyone who isn't Jacob.). A girl raised in the environment that tends to her own superiority and specialness won't be humble. If she goes to school, she will know that she is above all the lowly humans.
The Cullens will give her everything she wants without a second thought and people like Alice will stress the need for material objects. Her vanity will be prized( awesome twist if she was ugly by vamp standards but you know it would never happen) and she will she that beautiful people are worshiped. She won't ever have to work a day in her life.
In just seven years her body and mind will go through the complexities of growing up. What traits will she care into her permanent teen-aged body? Can she, in that short time, make the important milestones that signify a healthy, productive life? Probably not.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Jan 2, 2012 10:59:34 GMT -8
^Oh my god, she's Paris Hilton!
Seriously speaking though, I can see her as a future villain. She's already creepy, but she's still learning, and with everyone giving her what she wants and spouting that "we're better than everyone else because we are" babble despite doing the exact same things they're bashing others for...well, it's not like the Cullens give a damn about the lives of others. There was a fic that really nailed this prospect, where Nessie would want things and the Cullens and Jacob would immediately try to get them for her--even resorting to murder.
But what makes this creepy is that the Cullens may not even be necessary there. We can't actually tell whether her ability is really the projection of her thoughts and feelings or if it's outright mind control. Given how everyone who touches her or even looks at her seems to adore her instantly....well...I, for one, am leaning towards the latter.
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Chibithulhu
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None can resist cuteness.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Chibithulhu on Jan 2, 2012 12:45:08 GMT -8
^ Yeah, something suspicious about Bella instantly becoming interested in a baby the moment she's pregnant, isn't there? Especially since she's certain, beyond all shades of doubt, that it'll be a perfect clone of Edward and never considers that it could be female, or have ANY traits of hers WHATSOEVER, oh no. Sure, that one's just a particularly lame dead herring, but think about it, folks- would human Bella have wanted to keep the deathspawn if she didn't think it would just be a miniature Edward? Would human Bella have wanted to keep the deathspawn at all? Arguably the mind rape could've began pre-birth. Certainly in this scenario it occurred by the time Edward changes his mind about forcibly aborting it when he finds that the deathspawn loves its parents.
That said, I like any deconstructed version of Renesmee- Seven, Eighteen, Whatever I Want, actual demon-child, whatever works.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Jan 3, 2012 22:13:43 GMT -8
I like her as a villain, but somehow, I want to see her grow up to be a deadpan snarker who realizes just how messed up everything around her is.
I loved Renesmee in CircleDayBreak's Leah comic. She is fully aware of Bella and Edward's horrible parenting and neglect, and how they try to overcompensate for it by spoiling her financially. She's...not that impressed. And the imprinting thing creeps her out. She gave Leah a credit card to help her find a way to break it so she would be able to get rid of Jacob.
Badass Cutie Nessie is awesome.
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Post by blackrose97 on Jan 10, 2012 15:55:23 GMT -8
That Nessie, I would love someone. That is a realistic take on her future character and sadly it would never be so. That kind of gray area person is completely out of Smeyer's spectrum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2012 10:34:42 GMT -8
The Problems:
1. Basically the whole bio fail around her. Normally dhampires are explained away as magic and usually can't breed (I think). Sadly, Meyer keeps making a bunch of crazy shit up in order to explain her existence, pissing off anyone who has any sort of knowledge on biology. Just say, "I wanted them to have kids because I thought they'd be perfect with a kid". lame excuse aside, it's better tha vampire venom, werewolf genes, blah blah WTF I don't even logic
2. The whole "Grow up in 7 years". First off, any sort of mutation should probably cause the hellspawn to take LONGER to develop. Second, it gives this very wrong explanation about her and Jacob dating. It's still pedophilia -- even when she looks 18. I heard in some discussion this was following the Mormonism "Soul Mate" idea where one is BORN with the destiny of being a guy's mate (which basically ecnouraged many accounts of child marriage).
3. The fact Bella just dumps the little girl on Rosalie and Pedowolf. First off, it's child endangerment and abandonment. It also makes Hellspawn LESS of a character but rather an accessory to say "Bella's marriage is happy and perfect and she'll be the best little daughter because the family is perfect". Hellspawn is basically groomed to be just a doll, not a living being. The problem with Renesmee and that she is the ultimate Deus Ex Machia. She is just Meyer's solution to all of the problems in the book. This wouldn't be too bad if it was handled tactfully by and author with some skill but this is just an unskilled author trying to give her Mary Sue character everything she wants. Bella has to have Jacob so he falls for Nessie so that Bella can have him and Edward. Bella is childless and not complete so Renesmee solves the problem of Bella being an incomplete woman. What scares me is that people buy this. What is Renesmee's purpose outside of being a doll and Jacob's mate? Nothing. She has no reason to exist other than to be pairing fodder. She has no destiny other than to get with wolf boy and pop out some baby. She has no purpose or goals other than to love Jacob and I know I am describing Bella but what pisses me off is that she is being groomed to think and be this way. How could Meyer honestly think that creating a child with no choice but to love a grown man is more romantic then a grown woman falling for him willingly. Give that girl some competent human parents who will actually protect and raise her. |
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makoeyes
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Post by makoeyes on Jan 20, 2012 11:51:54 GMT -8
I'll try and go through and address the issues one by one.
1. I definitely think Renespawn is using mind control too. There's actually this really creepy part where I think it's one of the Amazon Meyerpires has doubts on her but then she lets Renespawn touch her and she smiles and is instantly in love with her. She's the creepiest thing ever.
2. Renesmee is just there solely as a convenience. She exists so that she can give Bella things she DIDN'T even want to begin with! Bella didn't even want a baby and she still got it!
3. I sorta agree about Rosalie. I adore her but it's weird how cruel she was to Bella but then again Bella's a horrible btich and Rosalie is a Meyerpire. I don't mind her playing mommy though. She deserves it and she makes a better mom than Bella.
4. I feel bad for Renesmee because there's still that chance that she really isn't some evil master mind. Poor kid.
5. And yes, she really does break ALL the rules of the supposed canon.
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casandraelf
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Post by casandraelf on Mar 23, 2013 14:01:34 GMT -8
I like to imagine Renesmee growing up mentally and psychologically quickly is simply a delusion of Bella's. The reality is that she's mentally incompetent and psychologically unstable. Despite looking like an older teen, she speaks with a childish lisp and with childish vocabulary. She also acts like and perceives the world like a child would. Say for example someone talks to Jacob. She loses her shit and throws a tantrum like a three-year old, yelling stuff like, "WAAAAAH!! MWOMMY! AWISHE IS TAWKING TO JACOB! TELL HER TO STOWP!" and keeps it up until she gets what she wants.
Also, despite seeing the world like a little kid, she still has sex with Jacob the Pedowolf Zombie.
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Post by Ozymandias II on Mar 23, 2013 17:18:48 GMT -8
Also, despite seeing the world like a little kid, she still has sex with Jacob the Pedowolf Zombie. That's pretty much the plot to the spitefic "Seven." Anyone got the link to that? |
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Post by Admin on Mar 23, 2013 17:28:09 GMT -8
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Post by Ozymandias II on Mar 23, 2013 18:37:47 GMT -8
^Yup, there it is. Those two for me epitomized what was so wrong with Renesmee and how everyone treated her.
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casandraelf
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Post by casandraelf on Mar 31, 2013 19:37:41 GMT -8
...I thought 'Seven' showed that Renesmee DIDN'T want to have sex with Jacob because she saw the world as a kid. My little theory pretty much said that despite seeing the world like a child, Renesmee still, somehow, has consensual sex with Jacob.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2013 4:01:24 GMT -8
Renesmee is the only reason there was a book three in Breaking Dawn in other words SHE IS THE PLOT.
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Post by marienomad on Feb 13, 2014 7:49:29 GMT -8
I don't know why but I keep on seeing Renesmee as a potential Antichrist.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Feb 25, 2014 20:25:22 GMT -8
Another thing: the more I think about it, Reneesme was means to an end for Bella. Remember how Eddikins was insisting that Bella delayed her turning for a couple of years? Yeah and Bella was just not having that, she was getting 'old' and then boom the baby enters the picture and she knows it's dangerous to keep it and no one can convince me that she kept it out of the goodness of her heart/desire to be a mother.
Reneesme's birth ultimately pushed Ed's hand and had to turn Bella so she wouldn't die and first chance they get, they dumpt the baby in Rosalie's care and they're off to have sex. Yeah, pair of devoted parents. NOT.
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