The Alternative Mary-Sue Test

[Darth Pichu]

Alright, so, since we've been going over so many Mary-Sue related things, I thought this was a topic we should bring up here.

We've pretty much agreed that the standard Mary-Sue test is getting a little out dated. People have become so accustomed to it that they've started making up ways to get around it and in turn, it seems to have spawned its own brand of Sues, the very thing it sought to get rid of.

This is a problem, and with so many people turning to Mary Sue tests for help with creating their characters, the idea that the very litmus they are using could turn their beloved character into more of a sue than they started out with is a frightening prospect indeed. The influence of the test is strong, strong enough that people will change the entire layout of their stories to accommodate it, and suffocate budding characters that could in time become good and workable characters.

It is one thing to dismiss the test and simply say that it doesn't work, but I'd like to go one step beyond that. Instead of just breaking down the old system and leaving a void where the old system had been, I have a proposition.

What if we, as the critic community of TS, were to create our own version of the Mary Sue test, incorporating what we know about good an bad characterization and putting it into an objective form that could be just as easy to access as the old Mary Sue test, but work with the fact that having Sue Traits is not necessarily a bad thing.

My idea was to start with a 100 point scale. Scoring 0-20 points means the character is too flat or too disconnected with the plot, 21-40 means the character is either a weak main or a moderate supporting character, 41-60 means that the character is a strong character if he is a main and an uber character is he is not, 61-80 means the character is too strong or stands out too much and needs to be toned down, and 80-100 means the character is a Mary-Sue.

As for the questions, they would be a little bit different too. Instead of simply asking questions about the characters themselves, the questions would more tie in with the plot of the story (Ie. Instead of asking "Does your character have an unusual or outlandish name" you would ask "Does the character's name stand out when compared to the other characters?")

So, what do you guys think? Yay or Nay?

[Brandon Skyblade]

Sounds interesting. It honestly sounds like a way to not totally panic about the results of it, and since the questions would tie into the plot, possible revisions could be done right then and there without wasting hours and hours changing entire plot points around just to fix that one character.

[Darth Pichu]

Exactly. I think it's more conducive to actual writing and as a result would make not only the characters better, but the work itself. Since the characters are ultimately a product of the work and of the bigger picture, it makes sense that in judging the characters you'd have to judge the work as well.

[Lord Lovrina]

I've been in the middle for making my own kind of Mary Sue test. I'm making one for Fantasy right now, and I should have it posted on my blog later this week.

[Darth Pichu]

Nov 7, 2010 0:18:22 GMT -8 Lord Lovrina said:

I've been in the middle for making my own kind of Mary Sue test. I'm making one for Fantasy right now, and I should have it posted on my blog later this week.

Well, alright, that's pretty neat. Why only fantasy though? My goal is kind of to make a test that is overarching. Mary-Sues shouldn't be confined to one genre. You shouldn't have to differentiate between if your character is a Sue in a fantasy work or a teenage romance. Sues are Sues. There are a lot of things I want to change too. A lot of the feilds that ask for personal things about the character like "Is your character illegitimate" or "Is your character very pretty".

Instead of asking a specific question, I thought it would be better to go with a more blanket question, so that you can't get caught up thinking your character is a mary sue JUST because they are pretty. Instead of asking if they are pretty you ask, "Does your character's looks make him or her stand out from the other characters" and so on. I'm still in the drawing board phases, but I just want to know what you think.

[Deleted]

This sounds like a good idea. Like it or not, people will always depend on sue-tests to validate their characters, the same way some people use actual tests to validate their intelligence.

*waits to hear more*

[Lord Lovrina]

Nov 7, 2010 6:20:43 GMT -8 Darth Pichu said:

Nov 7, 2010 0:18:22 GMT -8 Lord Lovrina said:

I've been in the middle for making my own kind of Mary Sue test. I'm making one for Fantasy right now, and I should have it posted on my blog later this week.

Well, alright, that's pretty neat. Why only fantasy though? My goal is kind of to make a test that is overarching. Mary-Sues shouldn't be confined to one genre. You shouldn't have to differentiate between if your character is a Sue in a fantasy work or a teenage romance. Sues are Sues. There are a lot of things I want to change too. A lot of the feilds that ask for personal things about the character like "Is your character illegitimate" or "Is your character very pretty".

Instead of asking a specific question, I thought it would be better to go with a more blanket question, so that you can't get caught up thinking your character is a mary sue JUST because they are pretty. Instead of asking if they are pretty you ask, "Does your character's looks make him or her stand out from the other characters" and so on. I'm still in the drawing board phases, but I just want to know what you think.

[Lord Lovrina]

Nov 7, 2010 6:20:43 GMT -8 Darth Pichu said:

Nov 7, 2010 0:18:22 GMT -8 Lord Lovrina said:

I've been in the middle for making my own kind of Mary Sue test. I'm making one for Fantasy right now, and I should have it posted on my blog later this week.

Well, alright, that's pretty neat. Why only fantasy though? My goal is kind of to make a test that is overarching. Mary-Sues shouldn't be confined to one genre. You shouldn't have to differentiate between if your character is a Sue in a fantasy work or a teenage romance. Sues are Sues. There are a lot of things I want to change too. A lot of the feilds that ask for personal things about the character like "Is your character illegitimate" or "Is your character very pretty".

Instead of asking a specific question, I thought it would be better to go with a more blanket question, so that you can't get caught up thinking your character is a mary sue JUST because they are pretty. Instead of asking if they are pretty you ask, "Does your character's looks make him or her stand out from the other characters" and so on. I'm still in the drawing board phases, but I just want to know what you think.

I'm also going to do one for romance and other genres. I'm working on the fantasy one since most Mary Sue stories I've read were from that genre. *coughcoughEragonandEnobycoughcough*

[Darth Pichu]

So, I finished the first draft of the test. I'll type it up momentarily.

I want you guys to tell me what you think of it. I'm sure there are a lot of things I'm missing and there might be some questions I need to take out. Also I need help with the ranking system. At first I was going to use one where you simply took the average out of 100, but that makes the test hard to score high on, and I think it would more encourage people to make sues than anything. NOT what I want to happen.

So anyway, just try out the test, read it over, tell me what you think.

Remember, the point of the test isn't to get a low score. It's to get a score somewhere in the middle of the road.

Section one:

The name

[/b][/center]
Write your character's name down at the top of this page and answer these questions truthfully

• Does your character have an interesting or outlandish name? (+1)
  
• Does your character's name stand out from all the other characters?(+2)
  
• Is your character's name symbollic of something? (+1)
  
• Does the character's name play a significant role in the plot?(+1)
  
• In fanfiction does your character's name suggest some type of relation to a cannon character? (+1)
  -To a hero or villain? (+1)
  
• Is your character's name not his/her real name?(+1)
  
• Is your character's name something he/she made up for him/herself? (+1)
  
• Does your character have a nickname or some other alias that makes them stand out from other characters? (+1)
  
• Does your character get a lot of attention because of their name?(+1)
  
• Do you spend any time explaining your character's name in the plot? (+2)
  

Appearance

• On a scale of 1 to ten how would you rate your character's appearance? (0-3= +0, 4-6=+1, 7-10=+2)
  
• On a scale of 1- 10 how would the other characters in your story rate your character's appearance? (0-3=0 ect.)
  
• Does your character stand out from the other characters in terms of appearance? (+1)
  -Because of his/her hair color?(+1)
  -Because of his/her eye color?(+1)
  -Because of a scar or Birthmark? (+1)
  
• Do any of these things play into the plot? (+1)
  
• Does your character get more description than most of your other characters do?(+1)
  -Do you give this description on or near the first page?(+1)
  
• Does anyone fall in love with your character because of his or her looks? (+1)
  -Is this a major part of the plot?
  
• Is your character unable to be with someone because of his or her looks? (-1)
  -Does he/she overcome this by the end? (+2)
  

Skills

[/i][/center]

• Does your character possess any skills of note? (+1)
  
• Does your character have more notable skills than most other characters? (+1)
  
• Is your character respected or looked up to because of these skills? (+1)
  
• Is your character considered the best in his feild at any of these skills? (+1)
  -More than one? (+1)
  
• Does your character have a rival who's sole purpose is to best him in this feild? (+1)
  
• Are there any skills only your character possesses? (+1)
  -Was it passed down from a mentor or father character? (+1)
  -Is it pivotal to the plot?
  
• Does your character learn any new skills throughout the story? (+1)
  
• Do you spend a good deal of the plot detailing how he/she comes about gaining these skills? (+2)
  
• Are they later important to the plot? (+2)
  
• Does your character use these skills to solve or overcome an important plot point? (+2)
  -Does your character do this more often than other characters do? (+1)
  
• Is anyone jealous of your character because of a particular skill he/she has?(+1)

Backstory

[/i][/b]

• Does your character have a backstory? (+1)
  
• Is your characters backstory more extentive than that of the other characters?
  
• Do you spend a good deal of time in the plot detailing the events of your character's backstory?(+1)
  
• Are there parts of your character's backstory that he/she doesn't want other people to know about?(+1)
  
• Are there parts of your character's backstory that he/she doesn't like talking about?(+1)
  
• Are there parts of your character's backstory that he/she doesn't know about?(+1)
  
• Do one of these have to do with a major plot point?(+1)
  -Do all of them? (+1)
  
• Do parts of your character's backstory play into the plot?(+1)
  
• Does your character think about his or her past often?(+1)
  -Do they dream about it? (+1)
  
• Does your character's lineage grant them some sort of advantage over the other characters, (being the decendent of a king, a great wizard's apprentice, the principal's daughter ect.) (+2)
  
• Does your character use this advantage during the plot?(+1)
  
• Does it grant your character any sort of get out of jail free card (getting out of something that another character would have gotten in massive trouble for?) (+2)
  

Relationships

[/b][/center]

• Is your character friends with many of the other characters? (+1)
  
• Do many characters like your character? (+1)
  
• Do many characters hate your character? (+1)
  
• Is your character more well liked than any of the other characters? (+2)
  
• More widely hated?(+2)
  
• Does your character become romantically involved with anyone over the course of the story?(+1)
  
• Does your character's falling in love/ love life take up a large portion of the plot? (+2)
  
• Is your character's lovelife more important than that of the other characters? (+2)
  
• Is your character romanticaly involved with many characters?(+2)
  
• Does your character end up with what you believe to be his or her "perfect match"? (+2)
  
• Does your character have a foil?(+1)
  -Is this your character's best friend? (+1)
  -Rival(+1)
  -Love interest? (+1)
  
• Is there anyone who would take a significant risk for your character? (Ie. risk getting arrested, killed, expelled from school ect.) (+1)
  
• Is there anyone your character would take a significant risk for? (+1)
  -Does he/she do this? (+1)
  
• Does your character form a relationship with some who is either in power or well respected within the realm of your story?(+1)
  - Many people?(+1)
  
• Is your character part of a five man band? (+1)
  -Is he the leader? (+1)
  -Is he the lancer? (+1)
  
• Does your character get more attention than the other characters in the plot?(+1)
  
• Do other characters pay more attention to your character than they do to other characters? (+1)

The Plot

[/li][li]Is your character an important figure in the plot?(+1)
[/li][li]Is your character significantly more important than the other characters? (+1)
[/li][li]Does your character do a lot to move the plot forwards? (+1)
[/li][li]More than the other characters do? (+1)
[/li][li]Could you consider your character the driving force behind the plot? (+1)
[/li][li]Would the story still work without your character involved? (-3)
[/li][li]Does your character have a motive that causes him to drive the plot forward? (+1)
[/li][li]Is your character particularly zealous about fulfilling this motive?(+1)
-Is it some form of revenge? (+1)
-Is it to bring about some sort of change in the world(a revolution of some sort, to save a race of people,?(+1)

Still more to come.

[Deleted]

Looks nice, I'm definitely looking forward to when you finish this.

[PRINCESS TROLLESTIA]

Nov 14, 2010 12:16:00 GMT -8 Darth Pichu said:

• Does your character have an interesting or outlandish name? (+1)
  
• Does your character's name stand out from all the other characters?(+2)
  
• Is your character's name symbollic of something? (+1)

These three are kind of misleading and borderline useless. Protagonists from all walks of genres have interesting, symbolic names that stand out. In fact, I would say that you'd be hard pressed to find a great number of literary characters whose names are not symbolic of something, or become symbolic through the text. I will agree with the points that a name that does not fit in the culture that the character is in, or was picked solely because it sounded pretty, or, hell, is like a full fucking sentence, should count towards sueishness.

Appearance

• On a scale of 1 to ten how would you rate your character's appearance? (0-3= +0, 4-6=+1, 7-10=+2)
  
• On a scale of 1- 10 how would the other characters in your story rate your character's appearance? (0-3=0 ect.)

1-10 on a scale of what though? 1 being ass ugly, or would that be 10? Is ten bombshell, or is it so beautiful pictures of Jesus weep every time the character walks past them? You need context for this to work. The rest of the points are fine, but this... needs work.

Skills

[/i][/center]

• Does your character possess any skills of note? (+1)

[/quote]Okay, "skills of note" is really, really, really fucking vague. Are we talking fantasy and magical skills, are we talking necessary life skills? Shooting guns? Rolling one's tongue? You can make a catch-all skills question, but you have to add examples, like gunslinging or magic. Hell, I would say that you should add a whole new section, just for magic.

[/list]
[/li][li]Is your character considered the best in his feild at any of these skills? (+1)
-More than one? (+1)
[/li][li]Does your character have a rival who's sole purpose is to best him in this feild? (+1)[/list][/quote]Spelling.

• Does your character learn any new skills throughout the story? (+1)

I would not count this as sueishness, rather a neutral. All the subquestions following should add points, though and you need a question that addresses the speed at what the character learns these skills. Years is not sueishness, "blink of an eye" or "deus ex machina - I learned fast because it was necessary to the plot"-esque speeds are.

Overall this is okay. It reads almost exactly like all of the other sue tests though - none of those tests addressed context at all either, most of them just relied on popular crappy tropes that were phased out over a couple of years.

[Maldeus]

Does your character have an interesting or outlandish name? (+1)
Does your character's name stand out from all the other characters?(+2)


Read more: tsdcv3.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=writersmain&action=display&thread=475#ixzz15ItTFQs2

How are these two different from each other? Aragorn is an outlandish name, but surrounded by Frodo, Gandalf, and Boromir, it doesn't really stand out, which is what makes him work.

Incidentally, I'm trying to make an incredibly simple Mary Sue Test, something which boils down to just three or four questions (things like "could you write an entire chapter of the story from the perspective of someone else, and not make mention to your character anywhere in the whole thing?").

[Darth Pichu]

Protagonists from all walks of genres have interesting, symbolic names that stand out. In fact, I would say that you'd be hard pressed to find a great number of literary characters whose names are not symbolic of something, or become symbolic through the text.

That's kind of the point. =P The idea is that Mary Sues all have traits that can either make or break a character, like a symbolic name. A big part of the test is that in order to score 'well', you have to make it into the 40-60 point range. I want it to work out so that you can do this by answering about a third to half the questions here affirmatively. Putting only traits that a complete Sue would score under would defeat the purpose of the test.

This test is operating with the understanding that all character traits start off in neutral territory, and that no one trait can make a character a Sue. So, I completely agree that a lot of these traits don't necessarily make a Mary Sue. In fact, none of them do, and to go a step further, you are going to NEED to have at least some of them in order to have a story that works. Maybe not all of the name ones, but something like learning a skill. I'd really hope you have at least some of your characters pick up some kind of skill over the course of your story, be it something like public speaking or playing a game. It's "skills of note" because technically, based on what the plot is, that could be anything. If your character would need to roll their tongue during the course of the story to get something or accomplish something, then yes, it would be a skill of note.

Alright, I'm going to continue to edit the post and put more of the test in.

[PRINCESS TROLLESTIA]

Nov 14, 2010 17:46:34 GMT -8 Darth Pichu said:

That's kind of the point. =P The idea is that Mary Sues all have traits that can either make or break a character, like a symbolic name. A big part of the test is that in order to score 'well', you have to make it into the 40-60 point range. I want it to work out so that you can do this by answering about a third to half the questions here affirmatively. Putting only traits that a complete Sue would score under would defeat the purpose of the test.

Then that's not going to work. You're doing what every other sue test is already doing - you're conflating non-sue qualities with sue qualities and not differentiating between them so the reader automatically assumes that to have such a quality in a character is a bad thing. Even if you say a middle of the road score is beneficial, they'll still freak out and will invariably probably lie on the test, rendering it useless.

You're assigning a quantitative value to qualitative traits, and that just doesn't work - it's why all of these sorts of tests fail.

Alright, I'm going to continue to edit the post and put more of the test in.

What you've got doesn't stand out from any already pre-existing sue tests.

[Admin]

Nov 14, 2010 14:47:02 GMT -8 PRINCESS TROLLESTIA said:

• Does your character possess any skills of note? (+1)

Okay, "skills of note" is really, really, really fucking vague. Are we talking fantasy and magical skills, are we talking necessary life skills? Shooting guns? Rolling one's tongue? You can make a catch-all skills question, but you have to add examples, like gunslinging or magic. Hell, I would say that you should add a whole new section, just for magic.

I'd say this point would actually be precisely why such a test must be genre-specific. Or, at the very least, very highly context-specific.

Rather than just asking if the character has any "skills of note", a better line of questioning would be:


Does your character have any skills that:
- no one else in the story has (+2)
- very few in the story have (+1)
- some have, but is still relatively commonplace in the story (0)
- Character has no special skills (-3)

if so, did your character:
- Learn it overnight in the context of the story? (+2)
- Pick up on it more easily than most in the story? (+1)
- Pick up on it at around the same speed or lower than others in the story? (+0)
- Already know it before the story began? (+0)

Does your character have multiple of such skills? If so, how many?
(Have an expandable menu that repeats the previous two questions for each such skill the character might have, then multiplies the results of the full menu by one and a half. This multiplication won't effect the first entry, and the menu won't feature the "no skills" option.)


...and that's all the time you should spend on any sort of "special skills".

[Darth Pichu]

Then that's not going to work. You're doing what every other sue test is already doing - you're conflating non-sue qualities with sue qualities and not differentiating between them so the reader automatically assumes that to have such a quality in a character is a bad thing. Even if you say a middle of the road score is beneficial, they'll still freak out and will invariably probably lie on the test, rendering it useless.

You're assigning a quantitative value to qualitative traits, and that just doesn't work - it's why all of these sorts of tests fail.

The point was more that NONE of the traits were necessarily Mary-Sue traits and that any trait that could be used with a poor character could be used with a good character as well. What makes a character a Mary-Sue is an oversaturating of traits that on their own are entirely fine to have.

The general idea was to get away from thinking of Mary-Sueism as a thing that you can measure. Because you said it yourself, you really can't. People are still struggling to figure out exactly what a Mary-Sue is and the opinions on the matter range so drastically that it's almost impossible to pin down even an exact definition, much less try to measure how much or how few Sue traits that the said character has. To determine whether or not a character is a Sue, one would have to first determine what measurable aspect of a character makes them a sue and second. I wanted to start off with a more traditional model to try and figure out exactly what it is that Sue tests are actually measuring. Since you can't actually measure Mary-Sueism. I figured that the tests were more a measure first of the plot relevance of the character and second how much the character stands out from the others. There were other questions that dealt with more specific aspects (Like if your character has a name you like or if your character just happens to be a vampire/ fallen angel ect.) but as it stands those are the two things the tests were analyzing, so logically, that means that, if the tests are to be trusted in any way, the two things that make a sue a sue are how plot relevant a character is and how much the character stands out from the others(A character who takes a spotlight in the plot and is both extrordiarily different and superior to the other characters being the point at which a character becomes a sue). If that's what really makes a character a Sue then that's exactly what the tests should be measuring, no more and no less.

I realize what I've got down is nowhere near to perfect (or even really all that near to adequate.) I've got a little start on a big project and that's really all it is at the moment, a start, but I figure as long as people are talking about it and considering the idea of revamping the Sue test then at least I'm doing part of my job here.

I'd say this point would actually be precisely why such a test must be genre-specific. Or, at the very least, very highly context-specific.

This is something I have a little bit of a problem with. If the sue test varies from genre to genre, and is testing different things, then how can we know that the end result is the same thing. If one test is gauging how many dates the character gets and the next one is asking how many people the character kills at war then how can you expect the results to have anything to do with each other. Can you really say that both characters are Sues if they have almost nothing in common with each other. If a trait signals a Mary Sue in one genre but not in the other then can you really say it's a sue trait at all?

[Admin]

Nov 15, 2010 8:23:58 GMT -8 Darth Pichu said:

This is something I have a little bit of a problem with. If the sue test varies from genre to genre, and is testing different things, then how can we know that the end result is the same thing. If one test is gauging how many dates the character gets and the next one is asking how many people the character kills at war then how can you expect the results to have anything to do with each other. Can you really say that both characters are Sues if they have almost nothing in common with each other.

How is a character's capability of going on dates limited by genre, other than that the romance genre will use that as its focus?

If a trait signals a Mary Sue in one genre but not in the other then can you really say it's a sue trait at all?

And therein lies one of the core problems with composing such tests. After all, as has already been thoroughly established, having what's considered a "Sue trait" doesn't mean that a character's a Sue. If such is so, then is it actually a "sue trait," at all?

Or is there, in reality, no such thing as a "Sue trait," but is it rather that a Sue is a culmination of positive traits without any balancing negatives?

If this is so, then wouldn't it be understood that what's a positive trait for a character to have will vary by genre due to the content variance among the different genres? Of course, even then, one can still use blanket terms that span the genres, but the questions must still very much rely on the context of the story and not just on the single character.


After all, isn't the problem with people trying to avoid Sues via "Sue tests" that they'll do so to such an extent that they rid their characters of everything mentioned on Sue tests, and thus cause their characters to ultimately lack anything even remotely interesting or redeeming?



If so, then the solution wouldn't be to devise a test around what's considered "Sue traits", but rather around ensuring that a character has a healthy balance of both positive and negative traits. May sound like nothing more than a semantic difference, but the true difference lies in the intent of the test. Intents sounding similar in theory can produce widely differing results.

[Maldeus]

There's a problem with the genre-specific tests, though. As an example, a few years ago I wrote a story about people with immense magical potential who could travel from world to world. These people separated into several different factions and began fighting for control of reality. All of my protagonists were one of these people, and if they couldn't cut skyscrapers in half by Act III, they were unusually weak. It balanced itself out, though, because there were tens of thousands of these people throughout the worlds. Nonetheless, a "fantasy" or "science fiction" or "speculative fiction" Mary Sue test would probably tell me that my protagonist's ability to level cities in the course of a fight with a major villain is a huge Sue warning, unless everything they say is relative (i.e. "compared to other characters, does your protagonist..."), in which case why do you need to differentiate between genres in the first place?

[Admin]

Nov 15, 2010 9:58:26 GMT -8 Maldeus said:

There's a problem with the genre-specific tests, though. As an example, a few years ago I wrote a story about people with immense magical potential who could travel from world to world. These people separated into several different factions and began fighting for control of reality. All of my protagonists were one of these people, and if they couldn't cut skyscrapers in half by Act III, they were unusually weak. It balanced itself out, though, because there were tens of thousands of these people throughout the worlds. Nonetheless, a "fantasy" or "science fiction" or "speculative fiction" Mary Sue test would probably tell me that my protagonist's ability to level cities in the course of a fight with a major villain is a huge Sue warning, unless everything they say is relative (i.e. "compared to other characters, does your protagonist..."), in which case why do you need to differentiate between genres in the first place?

Which is why I posed it as either/or.

It can either be genre-based or context-specific. (which, really, genre-based is just one form of context-specific, anyway. But basing it on the genre allows the test to use much less vague of terms.)

[PRINCESS TROLLESTIA]

Nov 15, 2010 4:53:34 GMT -8 Admin said:

should add a whole new section, just for magic.

I'd say this point would actually be precisely why such a test must be genre-specific. Or, at the very least, very highly context-specific.

Rather than just asking if the character has any "skills of note", a better line of questioning would be:


Does your character have any skills that:
- no one else in the story has (+2)
- very few in the story have (+1)
- some have, but is still relatively commonplace in the story (0)
- Character has no special skills (-3)

if so, did your character:
- Learn it overnight in the context of the story? (+2)
- Pick up on it more easily than most in the story? (+1)
- Pick up on it at around the same speed or lower than others in the story? (+0)
- Already know it before the story began? (+0)

Does your character have multiple of such skills? If so, how many?
(Have an expandable menu that repeats the previous two questions for each such skill the character might have, then multiplies the results of the full menu by one and a half. This multiplication won't effect the first entry, and the menu won't feature the "no skills" option.)


...and that's all the time you should spend on any sort of "special skills".[/color][/quote]I'd definitely agree with a genre specific test. Mostly because what would be sueish qualities in regular fiction aren't necessarily so in genre fiction.

[Admin]

Nov 15, 2010 11:11:58 GMT -8 PRINCESS TROLLESTIA said:

I'd definitely agree with a genre specific test. Mostly because what would be sueish qualities in regular fiction aren't necessarily so in genre fiction.

Unless, of course, the test is so horribly vague in its terminology that the questions regarding "special skills" could be equally applied to magic and real-world talents.


In which case, such a test would have a flag raised when it comes to my brother, as he's quite gifted musically.


Which is why using vague terminology is problematic when it comes to something to which one attempts to apply a formula.


I think the test(s) should be genre-specific and be context-sensitive. (As in, it compares the character in question to other characters in the story, but also asks questions that are only pertinent to the genre in question.)

[Tim Willard]

Aveliene Du Vek

The name

[/b][/center]
Write your character's name down at the top of this page and answer these questions truthfully

• Does your character have an interesting or outlandish name? (+1) No
  
• Does your character's name stand out from all the other characters?(+2) Yes
  
• Is your character's name symbollic of something? (+1) Yes
  
• Does the character's name play a significant role in the plot?(+1) Kind of, but only through family ties
  
• In fanfiction does your character's name suggest some type of relation to a cannon character? (+1) N/A
  -To a hero or villain? (+1) N/A
  
• Is your character's name not his/her real name?(+1) Yes
  
• Is your character's name something he/she made up for him/herself? (+1) No
  
• Does your character have a nickname or some other alias that makes them stand out from other characters? (+1) Oh yes.
  
• Does your character get a lot of attention because of their name?(+1) Yes
  
• Do you spend any time explaining your character's name in the plot? (+2) It ties in, but it's a family name and a descriptor
  

Appearance

• On a scale of 1 to ten how would you rate your character's appearance? (0-3= +0, 4-6=+1, 7-10=+2) 2 or 9, depending on form
  
• On a scale of 1- 10 how would the other characters in your story rate your character's appearance? (0-3=0 ect.) 2 or 9
  
• Does your character stand out from the other characters in terms of appearance? (+1) Yes
  -Because of his/her hair color?(+1) Yes
  -Because of his/her eye color?(+1) Yes
  -Because of a scar or Birthmark? (+1) No
  
• Do any of these things play into the plot? (+1) Yes
  
• Does your character get more description than most of your other characters do?(+1) No
  -Do you give this description on or near the first page?(+1) No
  
• Does anyone fall in love with your character because of his or her looks? (+1) Lust, yes, love, no.
  -Is this a major part of the plot? N/A
  
• Is your character unable to be with someone because of his or her looks? (-1) No
  -Does he/she overcome this by the end? (+2) N/A
  

Skills

[/i][/center]

• Does your character possess any skills of note? (+1) Yes
  
• Does your character have more notable skills than most other characters? (+1) Yes and No
  
• Is your character respected or looked up to because of these skills? (+1) Yes
  
• Is your character considered the best in his feild at any of these skills? (+1) Yes
  -More than one? (+1) Yes
  
• Does your character have a rival who's sole purpose is to best him in this feild? (+1) No
  
• Are there any skills only your character possesses? (+1) Yes
  -Was it passed down from a mentor or father character? (+1) Yes
  -Is it pivotal to the plot? Yes
  
• Does your character learn any new skills throughout the story? (+1) No
  
• Do you spend a good deal of the plot detailing how he/she comes about gaining these skills? (+2) No
  
• Are they later important to the plot? (+2) N/A
  
• Does your character use these skills to solve or overcome an important plot point? (+2) Yes
  -Does your character do this more often than other characters do? (+1) No
  
• Is anyone jealous of your character because of a particular skill he/she has?(+1) Yes

Backstory

[/i][/b]

• Does your character have a backstory? (+1)
  
• Is your characters backstory more extentive than that of the other characters? No
  
• Do you spend a good deal of time in the plot detailing the events of your character's backstory?(+1) No
  
• Are there parts of your character's backstory that he/she doesn't want other people to know about?(+1) Yes
  
• Are there parts of your character's backstory that he/she doesn't like talking about?(+1) Yes
  
• Are there parts of your character's backstory that he/she doesn't know about?(+1)
  
• Do one of these have to do with a major plot point?(+1) Yes
  -Do all of them? (+1) No
  
• Do parts of your character's backstory play into the plot?(+1) Yes
  
• Does your character think about his or her past often?(+1) No more than normal
  -Do they dream about it? (+1) Yes, it's called "Invoked Memory Response Obedience Conditioning" and it's built into her.
  
• Does your character's lineage grant them some sort of advantage over the other characters, (being the decendent of a king, a great wizard's apprentice, the principal's daughter ect.) (+2) Yes
  
• Does your character use this advantage during the plot?(+1) Yes
  
• Does it grant your character any sort of get out of jail free card (getting out of something that another character would have gotten in massive trouble for?) (+2) No.
  

Relationships

[/b][/center]

• Is your character friends with many of the other characters? (+1) Nope, she's a bitch
  
• Do many characters like your character? (+1) Nope
  
• Do many characters hate your character? (+1) Hate AND Fear! DOUBLE POINTS!
  
• Is your character more well liked than any of the other characters? (+2) Nope
  
• More widely hated?(+2) Yup
  
• Does your character become romantically involved with anyone over the course of the story?(+1) Nope
  
• Does your character's falling in love/ love life take up a large portion of the plot? (+2) Nope
  
• Is your character's lovelife more important than that of the other characters? (+2) Nope
  
• Is your character romanticaly involved with many characters?(+2)
  
• Does your character end up with what you believe to be his or her "perfect match"? (+2) Nope
  
• Does your character have a foil?(+1) Yes
  -Is this your character's best friend? (+1) Nope
  -Rival(+1) No
  -Love interest? (+1) No
  
• Is there anyone who would take a significant risk for your character? (Ie. risk getting arrested, killed, expelled from school ect.) (+1) Yes
  
• Is there anyone your character would take a significant risk for? (+1) Yes
  -Does he/she do this? (+1) Yes
  
• Does your character form a relationship with some who is either in power or well respected within the realm of your story?(+1) Yes
  - Many people?(+1) No
  
• Is your character part of a five man band? (+1) Nope
  -Is he the leader? (+1)
  -Is he the lancer? (+1)
  
• Does your character get more attention than the other characters in the plot?(+1) Yup
  
• Do other characters pay more attention to your character than they do to other characters? (+1) Nope

The Plot

• Is your character an important figure in the plot?(+1) Yup
  
• Is your character significantly more important than the other characters? (+1) Yup
  
• Does your character do a lot to move the plot forwards? (+1) Yup
  
• More than the other characters do? (+1) Yup
  
• Could you consider your character the driving force behind the plot? (+1) Yup
  
• Would the story still work without your character involved? (-3) No
  
• Does your character have a motive that causes him to drive the plot forward? (+1) Yes
  
• Is your character particularly zealous about fulfilling this motive?(+1) Yup
  -Is it some form of revenge? (+1) No
  -Is it to bring about some sort of change in the world(a revolution of some sort, to save a race of people,?(+1)

No



The story I based it off of.

The Black Unicorn

Pretty high score.

[Darth Pichu]

Hmm, well, you have a 52 right now. I've got a little more than 100 points available right now.

Actually you're about in the middle percentile range right now. If you continued on through the rest of the test like this you would be fine. =3 (Again, high score is a GOOD thing. Actually it's the score you're aiming for.) I haven't gotten around to putting in the rest of the test due to my Laptop being dead right now. =P That will happen eventually. When I'm not supposed to be doing Theory homework.

[Maldeus]

The problem is you haven't stated what any of the scores actually mean. At what point is the score high enough to qualify as a Mary Sue, and at what point is it low enough to be bland? Where exactly is the sweet spot that we're supposed to be aiming for?