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Post by candypants on Dec 1, 2011 23:30:14 GMT -8
According to my friends because of the imprints deep, deep love that even when Sam slashed her face open she would still love him because of the imprint.
Even with the imprint, if I was Emily, I would be afraid of the man that did that to me.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Dec 2, 2011 8:55:12 GMT -8
@anya: It honestly depends on the context. If it's a fic where Emily is staying with him out of fear, yes, I'll feel bad for her. Otherwise, based on what Meyer has said, it sounds like Emily was simply playing hard to get, and I have heard NOTHING of her trying to work things out with Leah. Other than the asking her to play bridesmaid bit, which feels more to me like adding insult to injury than any attempt at peace since it's Emily trying to get something else she wants from Leah. The way I see it, there are two options here.
One, Sam yet another abusive asshole in this series (maybe he didn't use to be while with Leah, but the imprint made him obsessive, and obsession is never the cornerstone of a healthy relationship) and Emily is really on with him either because she's traumatized, suffering Stockholm Syndrome, or is deeply afraid of him. The fact that Sam got angry AT her when she rejected him, fursplodded, and ATTACKED her backs up this view. Meyer has expressed views that make it out as though the guys are never to blame for what they do wrong and "know best". Her statements allude that Emily "made" Sam attack her, which is the classic excuse for abusive people.
The second option is that Emily is a manipulative bitch who was happy to take her cousin's ex and felt little to no guilt for the pain it caused her. That Meyer stated Emily wanted Sam since before meeting him because she fell in love after hearing Leah talk about him supports this view. As does her statement that Emily had only said "no" out of propriety. And if the wolf "has to be whatever the girl wants", it stands to reason that Emily COULD have wanted him as a friend. But even as she was telling him "no", she still wanted him.
The only third option I see here is that they are both selfish and horrible people who used the excuse of imprinting to get a sure thing and really didn't care who they had to hurt along the way because nothing was as important as themselves and their relationship.
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Chibithulhu
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Post by Chibithulhu on Dec 2, 2011 16:24:59 GMT -8
I prefer to see it as the first option, seeing as canon tends to back it up a bit, but it could be the second. I feel sorry for Emily if it is the first.
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Post by Anya the Purple on Dec 3, 2011 18:47:32 GMT -8
Is it bad that I hope it's the first? I mean, I'm not sure whether it's a good thing to want a woman (fictional or otherwise) to be a victim of such awful abuse, but... I don't know. I don't want her to be a horrible bitch like that.
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Chibithulhu
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Post by Chibithulhu on Dec 3, 2011 21:08:44 GMT -8
The first option's awful, but it's also slightly more realistic, at least in my opinion. At the very least, it makes at least two of the three characters in the mess sympathetic, and even then, imprinting can so easily be twisted as a torture for the guy, too. After all, it literally rips away their personality. For all we know, there could still be a part of the guy having to watch and unable to do anything.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Dec 4, 2011 20:15:02 GMT -8
I have seen both interpretations done and done fairly well. But I honestly believe it's all around easier and makes more sense to feel for Emily than it is to feel for Sam. In Emily's case, other than what Meyer says about her, we don't know what she's really thinking, so we can at least pretend that she didn't really want this and is trapped in a situation out of fear or Stockholm Syndrome--which I have yet to see anyone really attempt.
With Sam, while we can try to let him be the unwilling victim, we can't ignore that even though he couldn't help choosing Emily, he was still a total dick to Leah; and that while the imprint made her not matter as much, that's no excuse for the way he treated her and allowed the other guys to treat her. Unless this is like how Das Mervin portrayed it in her "For You, I Will" story, in which case Sam is a total dick to Leah because Emily wanted him to be. But then that would add all kinds of loaded questions to the "why did he sent Jared to bring her back" issue.
All the same, I see them both to blame in some aspects. I can see both sides, but that probably also keeps me from being able to see either as the true victim of the relationship since the only real victim of their love in canon was Leah.
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Post by circledaybreak on Feb 24, 2012 13:43:24 GMT -8
Considering all the evidence I think it's safe to say that Emily is just a selfish twat who Meyer thinks is a super special wonderful girl. Heck, Meyers open portrayal of Emily as pleasant and sympathetic should set off your alarm bells towards her being a total POS; just look at how Bella is deified. As for Sam, I think a little pity is in order since he's under some sort of magical influence, but you can't make me believe that imprinting totally robs you of ANY decency, otherwise I'm convinced the werewolf lineage would have collapsed in a few generations.
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Post by blackrose97 on Feb 24, 2012 19:10:33 GMT -8
^ Agreed. Emily is a bitch and Sam is extremely abusive. Case closed.
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Post by circledaybreak on Feb 24, 2012 21:26:46 GMT -8
You know it's an interesting theory that Leah is Meyer's punching bag insertion so as to punish her idea of crazy feminists, but do you think the whole Emily/Sam/Leah nonsense may have actually sprung from someone Meyer knows who's like Emily? In other words, what if Meyer has a friend like Emily who essentially stole someone's man, and Meyer used that as a story device to justify her friend by essentially saying that the unchaste barren woman doesn't deserve the man that was stolen from her? I mean, this is purely conjecture, but I can't shake the feeling this might be true. Heck, maybe one of her sisters is Emily. Maybe Emily is Emily... O.o
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Post by watersheerie on Feb 24, 2012 21:30:25 GMT -8
You know it's an interesting theory that Leah is Meyer's punching bag insertion so as to punish her idea of crazy feminists, but do you think the whole Emily/Sam/Leah nonsense may have actually sprung from someone Meyer knows who's like Emily? In other words, what if Meyer has a friend like Emily who essentially stole someone's man, and Meyer used that as a story device to justify her friend by essentially saying that the unchaste barren woman doesn't deserve the man that was stolen from her? I mean, this is purely conjecture, but I can't shake the feeling this might be true. Heck, maybe one of her sisters is Emily. I do get the feeling that Leah is based off of someone Meyer knows in real life. Leah just gets so much shit in the series that it feels spiteful, like Meyer is purposely using this character for some sort of petty revenge. Plus, we all know Meyer sucks at characterization, yet Leah is one of the few decent characters who actually feels real at times. It can't be Meyer's writing skills doing this, because she has none. Perhaps it is because Leah is actually a real person in real life, and Meyer has that to use when it comes to writing her.
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Post by circledaybreak on Feb 24, 2012 22:04:33 GMT -8
Well it's pretty obvious Lauren is based on a real person with the blatant malice Meyer shows towards the character, but I think Leah's mistreatment almost feels indifferent, like Meyer is punishing her on behalf of Emily and Sam, so ... Who is Emily?
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Feb 24, 2012 22:30:07 GMT -8
^Her sister, apparently.
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Post by circledaybreak on Feb 26, 2012 18:47:52 GMT -8
Do you think Meyer's sister Emily is just like the Emily of the Quilute? It wouldn't surprise me at all, but I can't help but wonder.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Feb 27, 2012 0:02:42 GMT -8
Well, both Seth and Jacob were apparently named after her brothers as well. And while we don't know much about her brother Jacob, her real brother Seth is a major dick. Much like the in-book Seth. Only difference is that real Seth actually gives a damn about his sister and won't let even the slightest bit of criticism reach her, whereas book Seth appears to only be mildly irritated at DEATH THREATS to his sister and wishes she would disappear when she follows out of WORRY for him simply because her being there is interfering with his getting to "hang with the big kids".
Can that kid shove his head any further up Jacob and the Cullen's asses? Probably no more than real Seth has his shoved up Meyer's.
Yes, that was crude. And no, I'm not sorry.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Feb 27, 2012 18:43:25 GMT -8
Isn't Emily who told Meyer she should publish the thing?
I can't speak for the sibling bond, as I'm an only child. But I see some of my cousins as sisters and no matter how many times we don't agree on things, God help the bastard/bitch who dares even JOKE about their deaths.
Edited to add:
That's why it bothers me that Seth's such an asshole to Leah, I mean, hello sibling bond you there?! Another thing, that goddamned link the pack has. If Leah could feel all the agression aimed at her, why couldn't THEY feel at least one little bit of Leah's pain?
Oh wait, never mind. That would involve caring for someone other that their respective true love/Bella/Cullens.
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Post by writer wannabe on Feb 28, 2012 8:22:31 GMT -8
My sister and I may get into fights all the time, but god help the asshole who threatens her life. I might not be able to beat them an inch within their life, but I'll find a way to get them punished for threatening her. If my sister was worried about my health and safety, I might get annoyed if I feel that I was perfectly safe but I wouldn't scoff at her and tell her to shove off. If she's been through hell because of a guy, I'd stick by her and not the guy and actually consider that she's been through a lot of pain because of that guy.
All in all, Seth doesn't act like a loving sibling. He acts like one of those brothers in Stardust that always go for each other's throats for the kingdom, only he's a little brown-noser instead of taking charge himself. What the hell does Meyer think is sibling love and why does she think that hating Bella or the "love" between Sam and Emily give Seth a reason not to treat Leah like family?
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Feb 28, 2012 10:22:42 GMT -8
Meyer doesn't understand characterization. To her, the only relationships that matter are those between set couples and those with Bella. It doesn't matter that two people SHOULD be friends or are supposed to be family, if one of the ones involved is not Bella or their significant other, there is no true individuality in their relationship. Or rather, there is no complexity in these character's lives that shows they HAVE lives.
Leah is the most obvious example. She's bitter. She's a bitch. Everyone--EVERYONE sees her this way because that is how Meyer wants to view her. Showing ANYONE sympathetic to her would suggest that Leah has any right to her anger and that perfect Sam and Emily are not so perfect. Out of everyone in this series, the ONLY one who even ATTEMPTS to show any sympathy to Leah is Bella. Nothing came of that, of course, it was just another way of noting Bella's "pain" by reminding everyone that she had to go through something similar.
Jacob outright hates her. The other guys despise her or simply don't care. Sam doesn't do a damn thing to show he's even sorry for what he did to her. We see nothing of the other girls or Sue. Seth, her own BROTHER, acts like a petulant child in that she's ruining his chances of "being awesome" or "hanging with the cool kids", completely ignoring that she's only doing it out of concern for him--something he SHOULD feel through the mindlink. So as a whole, we see...NO ONE who actually gives a damn about her or so much as tries to support her, even among the people who SHOULD, to the point where it's no wonder people keep thinking she'd commit suicide.
It's simply one of the drawbacks of having a world full of cardboard cutouts. If no one matters as much as Bella, then they are only delved into as much as Meyer has to. As such, we are shown no true relationships between these characters other than as couples or how they interact with Bella. Or how they prove Bella/Meyer's way of thinking right by hating on someone, even if that person doesn't deserve it.
Hell, look at Bella's human friends. Because Meyer hates them so much and does so little with them, we truly don't know anything about them. Just that they're a supposedly popular group composed solely of themselves, which is NOT how it works in the real world. You don't get popular by sitting around doing nothing, you become popular by interacting with folks. If these kids are that type of popular--the type that is actually outgoing and friendly towards others, then it WOULD explain why they attempted to befriend Bella, but doesn't excuse how we see so little of them in school. Or what came of their "anti-Bella agenda". It's kind of hard to hate someone who doesn't DO anything negative to warrant hatred. It's all part of Meyer's inability to show and not tell, and as such a shoddy author, she's also incapable of portraying any of the complexities of characters and their relationships the way that someone like Rowling can.
I mean, HELL, she actually showed that her characters were doing things when they weren't around Harry. Neville had to be one of the best cases of Hidden Badass I've ever seen. Everybody--and I mean just about every-freaking-body had a chance to shine or show how badass they could be. Meyer....doesn't give us that, because it would detract from the central characters of Bella and the Cullens. Only ones who had a crowning moment of awesome were Seth when he took down a vamp on his own (which seemed as more of a way to hit Leah when she had to be protected) and Leah when she told off Bella.
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Post by circledaybreak on Feb 28, 2012 20:03:49 GMT -8
I would understand people being lightly miffed at Leah or making some small crack about killing her, like my siblings and I do but.............Meyer can never do it in a real or uncreepy way and what's more there's nothing BUT the hostility. When I fight with my siblings I usually feel bad later, and I can't think of anyone I know personally who I hate so much I never even TRY to understand where they're coming from. Maybe if Meyer explained that since Leah's the first girl werewolf that the boys are able to hear her thoughts but no feel her emotions, but even that wouldn't really excuse them since people have the ability to empathize with others without even seeing their face let alone being inside their head. Sometimes people can be irrationally angry at others and dump blame on easy targets but the hostility felt towards Leah is so unbalanced, unfair and utterly unresolved it feels like some unspoken joke that no one gets unless they're insane.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Feb 28, 2012 21:42:48 GMT -8
^Meyer had Jacob rationalize it in that having a girl in the "all guys' club" made them feel "uncomfortable". They didn't know how to handle it, blah blah blah. To me, it sounded more like they were bitching because they couldn't run around naked everywhere anymore. I said it before: If they wanna run around everywhere naked, GO JOIN A NUDIST COLONY!
Problem is that they never grow up. LEAH is the one who has to grow up, who has to deal with the consequences of other people's actions, and who has to "fix" herself to fit in with them. Even when Jacob knows and admits he's in the wrong, he refuses to acknowledge it in the childish tantrum that he doesn't want to be understanding. All the guys come off this way. Nevermind Leah may have a point or that they may be unnecessarily cruel, it's just easier to blame her and claim she's a bitch than accept that they may have to actually work on anything. Because apparently Leah threatens their manhood or something.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 1, 2012 17:17:16 GMT -8
^Seeing how she's the closest thing Twishit has to a strong female, she just might threaten their manliness. And some guys really don't handle that well. >.>
Seriously the lack of sympathy for Leah is why I always imagine the elders of the reserve (Quil's dad, Billy, and the Clearwater parents if I recall?) as sympathetic to her, even if they do think that imprinting can't be helped, and so Sam and Emily are "justified" in breaking them up. Except Sue and Harry. Harry's pretty pissed at them, but nothing ever comes of it because he died. Sue on the other hand...*VERY evil grin* Quil's dad is happy that Sam and Emily are happy, but feels like they went about it all wrong and that Leah has a right to be pissed. Billy is probably the most sympathetic to Emily and Sam, but he still thinks Leah deserves to be happy and should be allowed to leave if she wants. Not that Sam or Jacob listen but still.
Dammit, now I'm pondering my "Leah goes to college with her friend" fic again. You remember the one CN.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 2, 2012 1:17:28 GMT -8
^Oh yes. And you do need to write it out, btw.
But that gets me thinking. Honestly, given how little we see her, I can't think much of Sue. But it's noted that Billy's been spending time at the Clearwater house, which according to Jacob, must be torture because of "having to be around Leah". If I can at least pretend it's the unreliable narrator at work and that Jacob really doesn't know anything about what his dad does when he's not around (much like I do for Bella and her inability to see five feet past Edward), I can actually imagine Leah and Billy getting along. He lost a friend. She lost a dad. And hey, he lost his wife before and knows what his kids went through in losing a mother. Maybe he can relate? Or if not him, maybe Charlie.
Is it weird that I want to see Leah getting a good father figure in this? Like, have her open up to Charlie--not romantically, and I despise everybody who has her imprint on him--but...well, she doesn't have a dad and his daughter isn't a very good one. I think it'd be cute to see that father/daughter interaction--where he would fumble a bit in trying to interact with her, but still managing to get her to open up. He wouldn't replace Harry and she couldn't replace Bella, but I think that maybe each could give the other some support that they certainly aren't getting from their own family.
Looking at you, Seth and Bella.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Mar 2, 2012 15:18:19 GMT -8
^That Leah/Charlie family-like idea is a good one, btw. I think that a foster parent-child bond could be formed. It really rubs me the wrong way that NO ONE gave a sh*t about Leah; I understand that this is Meyerland but seriously this is WAY too much.
I don't want to derail the thread with this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Leah is real and someone who Meyer knew. Maybe someone from Emily's (her sister) past who Meyer felt the need to give her the short end of the stick?
And now that I think about it, why give her sister's name to the one woman who is physically scarred?
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Post by writer wannabe on Mar 2, 2012 20:32:23 GMT -8
^That Leah/Charlie family-like idea is a good one, btw. I think that a foster parent-child bond could be formed. It really rubs me the wrong way that NO ONE gave a sh*t about Leah; I understand that this is Meyerland but seriously this is WAY too much.
I don't want to derail the thread with this, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Leah is real and someone who Meyer knew. Maybe someone from Emily's (her sister) past who Meyer felt the need to give her the short end of the stick?
And now that I think about it, why give her sister's name to the one woman who is physically scarred? Leah/Charlie father/daughter bond is headcanon for me. In fact, I think it's a common headcanon for many readers on das mervin's sporkings and the Twi.Spit.Fic. community. Emily found TWU WUV! Sure, she's permanently scarred because of Sam, but she has the love of her life and is part of the most revered couple in the Twiuniverse. [sarcasm] Why would the real Emily have any problems with that? [/sarcasm]
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Post by reniefuwa on Mar 2, 2012 20:46:15 GMT -8
^Yeah, my personal feel-good ending for them is that a portal between dimensions opens up into the Supernatural universe, Leah freelances as a hunter (as if any of them don't) and Charlie ends up as a "base of operations" guy like Bobby
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Post by Anya the Purple on Mar 3, 2012 16:39:36 GMT -8
I always imagine Leah and Rosalie bonding over hating Bella and the other Cullens and eventually running away together.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 4, 2012 19:32:08 GMT -8
^I actually have an idea where Leah and Rosalie stop the Volturi from killing Bree, call out the others on being willing to callously abandon her, and then they leave with Bree to go protect humans from the supernatural since the people who say they're committed to protecting human life (the Cullens, the pack) REALLY suck at it. I'm going to write it sometime. No, really, I am!
@cn- I know I do. I'm just swamped by school and other writing and real life. >.>
I actually like to think Leah gets along with Billy and Charlie. They both need decent children. And the fact we don't see much of them is the exact reason why I like to think Leah's parents are/were on her side. I don't want to think they'd abandon their daughter that way.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Mar 5, 2012 17:39:15 GMT -8
^I'd like that idea for that fic.
And I personally would like to think that at the very least, Leah has her mother on her side. I can't imagen Leah's mom being a bitch to her too.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 5, 2012 22:15:54 GMT -8
I keep getting ideas for Leah. If she's not building a father/daughter bond with Charlie and helping him out with law enforcement, then she's joining a supernatural-fighting team that may or may not include various characters from other series (and may reveal Charlie as a living legend among those circles). But however it goes, it usually has her kicking some serious ass.
Here's something that appeals to me: why doesn't Leah become alpha? Yes, we know canonically speaking that the guys hate her for no good reason, but given how Jacob completely fails to step up to his "True Alpha" duty and how it seems that Leah's been the one really running things.....seriously, am I alone in thinking she'd actually make for the better leader?
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Post by KeyOfTheTwilight on Mar 6, 2012 14:49:28 GMT -8
^ No. I'm pretty sure everyone is wondering that too, but Meyer isn't letting that happen. We all could see Leah could do it but Meyer is all, "No, no, no! A GIRL can't be a leader! That's like. Un-womanly!" but then again Leah is apparently supposed to the staw feminist, right?
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 6, 2012 17:53:52 GMT -8
@purple Rose- Thank you.
Hmm, Leah as an alpha is an interesting concept. Jacob is an Alpha due to bloodlines, and I'm pretty sure Sam was the stand in because he phased first. It'd be interesting to know what would happen if Leah phased first, or became an Alpha through different means.
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