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Post by serenadeofhatred on Nov 14, 2010 9:14:17 GMT -8
This is the thread where we all put our heads together and try to explain the inconsisties in the books. Any suggestions?
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Demeter
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Post by Demeter on Nov 14, 2010 17:50:55 GMT -8
Rowling isn't God - she's human and she makes mistakes.
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 14, 2010 18:03:41 GMT -8
Demeter - I think it's just supposed to be a bit of fun I can't think of any off the top of my head. I don't know where my books are so I can't just grab one and start reading SOMANYSADFACES. Anyone else want to start?
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Demeter
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Post by Demeter on Nov 14, 2010 18:11:37 GMT -8
^ I know, but that's my standard response when normally-good authors screw up.
I'm honestly not aware of any inconsistencies in HP. I haven't read the books in ages, though.
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Post by Anya the Purple on Nov 14, 2010 19:43:07 GMT -8
Well, here's one that's been bugging me: In book 1, Hagrid says that Lily and James were "Head Boy and Girl at Hogwarts in their day," but in book 5, we found out that James wasn't even a prefect, Lupin was. And I'm pretty sure you've gotta be a Prefect before you can be Head Boy. And anyway, nobody in their right mind WOULD make James Head Boy because he's such a troublemaker.
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Post by Lord Lovrina on Nov 14, 2010 20:19:01 GMT -8
Well, here's one that's been bugging me: In book 1, Hagrid says that Lily and James were "Head Boy and Girl at Hogwarts in their day," but in book 5, we found out that James wasn't even a prefect, Lupin was. And I'm pretty sure you've gotta be a Prefect before you can be Head Boy. And anyway, nobody in their right mind WOULD make James Head Boy because he's such a troublemaker. This. Unless he some how improved his behavior, I don't see that happening.
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 15, 2010 5:22:45 GMT -8
Wow, nice catch. It's been a couple years since I've read the series, but even so, I don't think I would have caught that. What do you think could be the explanation?
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Post by Corporal Flashback on Nov 15, 2010 5:28:29 GMT -8
Well, here's one that's been bugging me: In book 1, Hagrid says that Lily and James were "Head Boy and Girl at Hogwarts in their day," but in book 5, we found out that James wasn't even a prefect, Lupin was. And I'm pretty sure you've gotta be a Prefect before you can be Head Boy. And anyway, nobody in their right mind WOULD make James Head Boy because he's such a troublemaker. I always put that down to the fact that Hagrid was trying to paint Lily and James out to be these amazingly perfect people. Notice how no-one but Snape has a bad word to say about either of them, and he only hates James.
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 15, 2010 5:43:20 GMT -8
Well, here's one that's been bugging me: In book 1, Hagrid says that Lily and James were "Head Boy and Girl at Hogwarts in their day," but in book 5, we found out that James wasn't even a prefect, Lupin was. And I'm pretty sure you've gotta be a Prefect before you can be Head Boy. And anyway, nobody in their right mind WOULD make James Head Boy because he's such a troublemaker. I always put that down to the fact that Hagrid was trying to paint Lily and James out to be these amazingly perfect people. Notice how no-one but Snape has a bad word to say about either of them, and he only hates James. I thought about that too, but it isn't in Hagrid's character to lie well. Think about all the times he tried to hide something from Harry and always failed. I don't think he'd lie about something like that.
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2010 6:55:23 GMT -8
When Harry got to see James' behavior from back then, was it always from Snape's perspective, or others? I don't recall. >.>
Or, rather, did Hagrid ever actually meet James and Lilly?
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 15, 2010 7:13:32 GMT -8
Z - The only memories Harry ever saw were when he viewed Snape's in the Pensieve. However, I found this at The Leaky Cauldron:
I can't find any information about Hagrid knowing James and Lily, but he always talks about them as if he knew them.
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2010 7:18:56 GMT -8
It could be a combination of two things, then.
First, Snape's memory could have been altered over the years since then (since I can almost guarantee that the memory wasn't collected from him while it was fresh, and thus he'd had plenty of time to re-imagine it before he was ever to provide it for viewing). After all, didn't he draw it directly before Harry viewed it?
Second, it could also be that Hagrid, having apparently liked James, could have equally had his own memory altered via nostalgia.
After all, you tend to remember people you dislike as being worse than they actually were and people you like as being better than they actually were.
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 15, 2010 7:33:31 GMT -8
That's true. He may have just convinced himself that James was Head Boy.
As far as Snape's memory being altered just due to the passage of time, it's possible - but at the same time, he gave that memory to Harry as he lay there dying. I don't think that he would have wanted to hurt him any more.
(Side note: It always makes me wonder, reading that final Pensieve scene, when it is revealed how enraged Snape is that Harry is meant to die. Despite making his life hell at Hogwarts for six years, how much did he truly hate Harry? He had sworn to protect him in honor of Lily. The whole thing breaks my heart and I am NOT looking forward to watching Alan Rickman get his neck gouged by a giant nasty snake.)
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Post by Corporal Flashback on Nov 15, 2010 7:40:56 GMT -8
It could be a combination of two things, then.
First, Snape's memory could have been altered over the years since then (since I can almost guarantee that the memory wasn't collected from him while it was fresh, and thus he'd had plenty of time to re-imagine it before he was ever to provide it for viewing). After all, didn't he draw it directly before Harry viewed it?
Second, it could also be that Hagrid, having apparently liked James, could have equally had his own memory altered via nostalgia.
After all, you tend to remember people you dislike as being worse than they actually were and people you like as being better than they actually were. Was Hagrid gamekeeper then? He wasn't when Molly and Arthur were at Hogwarts, but I think we can assume that Lily and James were younger. The dates are kinda fuzzy
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2010 8:04:05 GMT -8
Was Hagrid gamekeeper then? He wasn't when Molly and Arthur were at Hogwarts, but I think we can assume that Lily and James were younger. The dates are kinda fuzzy I dunno. I'm not exactly well-versed in all things Potter. >.>;
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 15, 2010 8:25:21 GMT -8
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Post by Avocados :D on Nov 15, 2010 9:00:03 GMT -8
Was Hagrid gamekeeper then? He wasn't when Molly and Arthur were at Hogwarts, but I think we can assume that Lily and James were younger. The dates are kinda fuzzy At the very least he was around. Wasn't it that Hagrids dad was dead by the time he got expelled and Dumbledore (or whoever was headmaster, I forget his name >.> let him continue living at Hogwarts?
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Post by Spectraitor on Nov 15, 2010 9:48:29 GMT -8
I want to say Headmaster Dippet but I'm not altogether sure...
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Post by Corporal Flashback on Nov 15, 2010 11:04:16 GMT -8
OK, so I checked out the Harry Potter Lexicon. It's a pretty shit site, tbh the Twilight Lex is better constructed and organised, but whatever. Also, here they seem to believe that Hagrid was given the gamekeeper's position in June 1943So he definitely was, and there seems to be a gap where no-one knows exactly when Dumbledore became headmaster, and it's guessed at the late 50's/early 60's. I think I'd put this down to either Hagrid forgetting or wanting Harry to think well of his parents.
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Post by 47 on Nov 15, 2010 14:28:37 GMT -8
I don't buy that it's just Snape's memory. I mean, the point of a Pensieve is to revisit things you might not consciously have picked up on - do you think Bob Ogden singled Merope's locket out as important? (Or, for that matter, that the Marauders would talk about Remus being a werewolf in anyone else's earshot?)
I personally hold that James's sixth year is a gold mine of fanfic fodder, and a good plot-driven fic would go a long way towards reconciling James in general.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 15:06:57 GMT -8
You don't have to be prefect to be Head Boy/Girl. Apparently he started cleaning up his act after 5th year.
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Post by Anya the Purple on Nov 15, 2010 20:29:43 GMT -8
You don't have to be prefect to be Head Boy/Girl. Apparently he started cleaning up his act after 5th year.
Are you sure? Because when Ron becomes Prefect, Molly says "You could be on your way to becoming Head Boy, Ron, it's the first step!" or something to that effect. Also, even if Snape's memory is biased, there are innumerable official records of James and Sirius (sometimes with the help of Remus and Peter) breaking rules-Harry comes across a lot of them when he's rewriting old records for detention in book 6. Even if he did clean up his act, I don't think James could become Head Boy with a track record like that. Head Boy and Girl positions are for people like Percy, who are constantly sucking up. I think Remus would have been a better candidate than James, and none of the Marauders would really have been that great a choice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 20:41:54 GMT -8
I think being prefect just gives you a better chance. Basically, Dumbledore can choose who ever he feels like, even if it seems questionable.
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Post by serenadeofhatred on Nov 16, 2010 12:27:48 GMT -8
Here's one: Lily's letter in DH. How did it get in Grimmauld place? Siriius left when he was sixteen and didn't come back until OOTP.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 13:09:04 GMT -8
^He brought it with him?
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Post by Corporal Flashback on Nov 16, 2010 13:11:16 GMT -8
^^ But he was in Azkaban. Are you allowed to keep stuff like that in Azkaban?
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Post by Too Funk to Druck{Truthiness} on Nov 16, 2010 13:30:15 GMT -8
Maybe? I doubt they'd care much because they'd expect you to die eventually.
Maybe he had it at the house he was in before he went to Azkaban?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 14:59:40 GMT -8
Or maybe he used Grimmauld Place as a safe keeping house that he occasionally dropped stuff off at.
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Sassley
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Post by Sassley on Nov 16, 2010 15:33:39 GMT -8
What I want to know is how Snape got the last page of the letter and the half of the photo with Lily on it.
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Post by Corporal Flashback on Nov 16, 2010 15:35:29 GMT -8
What I want to know is how Snape got the last page of the letter and the half of the photo with Lily on it. That's much easier, he robbed it while he was at a meeting of the Order of the Phoenix.
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