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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 6, 2012 18:39:28 GMT -8
^Currently working on a plunnie that delves into the consequences of the "war" in BD, the Cullens inviting all their friends to an all-you-can-eat human buffet, and the wolves doing nothing. Leah finds out Jacob sent her and Seth away so they wouldn't know about the vampires killing people. Needless to say, Leah is pissed and tears him a new one, thus becoming the alpha by beating down his ass in combat.
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Post by writer wannabe on Mar 6, 2012 19:19:20 GMT -8
^Needs to happen.
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blenderbender
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 8, 2012 20:09:23 GMT -8
^Seconded.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2012 0:17:46 GMT -8
^Thirded.
This sounds stupid, but I'm thinking of rereading Breaking Dawn to see just how god-awful the characters are to Leah. The book's a vague blur to me. (...Though I'll probably need to read Carrie and The Shining between chapters, due to the sheer stupidity that is BD.)
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 9, 2012 7:20:46 GMT -8
^I remember that there's an underlying tone when mentioning her. Constant sarcastic and/or disparaging comments are made at her expense. Jacob breaks Paul's nose and Paul comments that he'd almost rather hang out with Leah. Similarly, Billy had been hanging at the Clearwater place to avoid having to see his daughter in an imprint relationship, and Jacob considered it a possibility except that Leah was there. So apparently a broken nose and watching a family member be lovey dovey with an imprinter is better compared to being around Leah.
But there was the direct comments as well. Leah tried to talk to Jacob--actually TALK to him about Bella. No, her statement was not nice, but it did address a real problem that as "uncomfortable" as her being a wolf made the guys, they were making it just as bad for her. Then he threw it at her face by bringing up Emily not needing them panting after Sam, too. This is, of course, ignoring that Sam and Leah had been together for YEARS and had actually been in a real relationship. Not bad enough he completely discounted her feelings--which, unlike Sam's, did NOT immediately disappear with the imprint--but he's putting Emily as the victim of Leah's justifiable feelings.
Nothing compares to that first moment when Leah tries to join Jacob's pack, though. Jacob won't look past his own butthurt--not can't, simply won't. He realizes she's had a hard time of it, but rather than admit that like a "true leader" would and try to change things, HE wants to play like the hurt party and expect HER to change and fix things. And Seth....well, I think I've already gone into the reasons why I despise him and think his "darkhorse ensemble" status is unwarranted, but the "You ruin everything!" line still pisses me off. I seriously don't see how anyone actually considered him supportive of her. At all.
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 9, 2012 8:40:24 GMT -8
^Oh good God, I'd nearly forgotten the bit with Paul. Jackass. Also, Jacob, maybe your dad LIKES being near a girl who will bash on his daughter's imprint with him and encourage him to get the shotgun out.
But CN you can't expect Jacob to be mature! He's too speshul for that. *rolls eyes*
Mm, I guess I could see that-I've said things like that to my brother often enough, but the fact he has NO support for her blows that out the window.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 9, 2012 13:21:58 GMT -8
^It's not that he said it, it's the context in which he said it. She just up and left everything she'd known to follow him out of worry for his safety, with the very real possibility that in doing so, she may very well never be able to return. And instead of some freaking gratitude that they have another ally or even some embarrassment that big sister feels she needs to look out for him, he turns on her because her presence puts him at risk of not getting to hang with the "cool kids". That is seriously how it feels. That he would full-out abandon her just to keep his nose at Jacob's ass.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Mar 9, 2012 14:02:23 GMT -8
blenderbender: You're welcome.
@chaotic Neutral: Fourthing that fic idea.
I still feel that Leah is someone from both Meyer and her sister's past. Otherwise why else would she send so much grief at Leah's way (other that perhaps being the "token feminist")?
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but, wasn't Billy a friend of Leah's dad? Maybe he would actually be missing his friend and in some level understand that both Seth and Leah miss him. But with Leah we have the added pain of knowing that while it wasn't her fault, the shock of seeing her shapeshift aided the heart attack.
The thing I can't understand is why Leah is being made into such a bitch. She (and Rosalie on some level) off all people has very valid reasons to be angry and hurt.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 9, 2012 14:26:57 GMT -8
^Billy was. But apparently, that would involve recognizing a complexity to a person's relationships outside of the soulmates and thus not something Meyer would even consider.
Same, and that's honestly what ticks me off so much regarding her treatment. This isn't like Lauren where apparently one sarcastic comment was worth being scammed. Or Rosalie where Meyer needed a bitch character and then tacked on a sob-story as backstory so she and Bella can be friends. There was NOTHING warranting what happened to Leah. So much so that her very existence as a whole could have been removed and the story wouldn't have been affected. Except, apparently, when it came time to have Jacob be injured and she needed a scapegoat. But hell, Meyer's made it clear how much she detests Lauren, and Lauren gets a bad haircut and some money loss compared to Leah losing her fiancee, being betrayed by her cousin, transforming into a monster, likely causing her dad's death, and then finding out that she probably can't get preggers. All BEFORE she ever even MET Bella. The HELL, Meyer?
It's like watching Meg from Family Guy. All these horrible things are being done to her and everyone simply shrugs it off like she DESERVED it somehow! WHY? What purpose did ANY of this serve? You want to create a butt monkey, fine, but at least justify it! And having your favorite characters that are SUPPOSED to be kind and wonderful people be horrible to the butt monkey doesn't make the victim deserving of the treatment, it makes your characters complete dicks.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Mar 9, 2012 15:20:04 GMT -8
^So he was, thank you. Well, complexity isn't something think the series has.
I remeber listing on the Rosalie thread why I didn't think she was a bitch and when you list Leah's reasons for her anger, it only makes it worse the abuse she gets. And agreed, on the butt monkey comment; it really shows them as complete dicks that they are willing to treat someone like that.
Also the butt monkey remainded me of Xander on Buffy, after he's being made Dracula's slave he yells: "I'm sick of being the butt monkey!"
Funny that I could see Leah yelling that.
We have a saying here in México, it goes like this: Growing up is obligatory, maturing is optional. And I believe it describes Meyer to a T.
And yes, agreed so much on the Meg issue.
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 10, 2012 16:57:50 GMT -8
@cn - What? Relationships that AREN'T Twu Wuv or Being Meanie Pants To Bewwa? Inconceivable!
I have no idea WHAT was going through Meyer's head when she decided to torment Leah. I mean, I can understand torturing characters in order for them to grow up and learn something, but this is Twilight where everyone is a static character so that can't be the case. Maybe Meyer just needed to torture a character for the sake of it. I do that sometimes. The difference is it's always in oneshots to expand on why a character behaves a certain way, and next to nobody suffers for no reason.
....I have never seen Family Guy and therefore I feel left out of the Meg discussion.
@purple Rose - Well, yeah, because everyone is a Static and Flat character, therefore nothing ever changes. It makes for incredibly boring plots. Haha, now I need to watch Buffy.
And infinitely yes, Meyer personifies that saying.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 10, 2012 19:44:35 GMT -8
^So he was, thank you. Well, complexity isn't something think the series has.
I remeber listing on the Rosalie thread why I didn't think she was a bitch and when you list Leah's reasons for her anger, it only makes it worse the abuse she gets. And agreed, on the butt monkey comment; it really shows them as complete dicks that they are willing to treat someone like that.
Also the butt monkey remainded me of Xander on Buffy, after he's being made Dracula's slave he yells: "I'm sick of being the butt monkey!"
Funny that I could see Leah yelling that.
We have a saying here in México, it goes like this: Growing up is obligatory, maturing is optional. And I believe it describes Meyer to a T.
And yes, agreed so much on the Meg issue.
But at least with Xander it had a POINT and some taste, where his butt monkey status only went so far as the villains targeting him or him getting affected by some sort of power--which other people in the series ALSO dealt with. He was actually CARED about, so even though he was left out on a couple occasions by his friends, they DID try to help him and work with him. Hell, he even grew and matured, becoming a useful member of the Scoobies on his own right. Why do you think he has such a large fanbase? Because the show let him be the victim AND a badass. His existence wasn't a complete "why do you continue to let him breathe?" Whereas both Meg and Leah are just hated for existing and provide NO value to the canon other than to be hated. I mean, hell, at least Eric Cartman from South Park was enough of an ass to deserve the crap they do to him. You know, I could see Leah shouting that as well. It's like Meyer just has to keep punching her in the ovaries for some reason. I mean, I can get having a female werewolf, but was there supposed to be a purpose to having her turn out to have dated Sam, be Emily's cousin, be the daughter of the guy whose funeral Edward mistook for Bella's, hated and ostracized, AND apparently unable to bear children? Was there ANY POINT to ANY of that? @cn - What? Relationships that AREN'T Twu Wuv or Being Meanie Pants To Bewwa? Inconceivable! I have no idea WHAT was going through Meyer's head when she decided to torment Leah. I mean, I can understand torturing characters in order for them to grow up and learn something, but this is Twilight where everyone is a static character so that can't be the case. Maybe Meyer just needed to torture a character for the sake of it. I do that sometimes. The difference is it's always in oneshots to expand on why a character behaves a certain way, and next to nobody suffers for no reason. ....I have never seen Family Guy and therefore I feel left out of the Meg discussion. @purple Rose - Well, yeah, because everyone is a Static and Flat character, therefore nothing ever changes. It makes for incredibly boring plots. Haha, now I need to watch Buffy. And infinitely yes, Meyer personifies that saying. Good. Don't watch it. After being brought back from cancellation, it started to fail horribly. When the parents actually regret not having aborted a child and the father SHOOTS the kid when she simply enters a room, that's horrible and outright child abuse, NOT something the kid is actually deserving of. I torture my characters as well. It's fun. I get a twisted sort of enjoyment out of it. Part of it is for character development. Part of it is because I want to freak out any readers. But this is MEYER. MEYER who "doesn't do dark". Who doesn't so much as include a full explanation in-canon for Lauren's mysterious bad haircut and has to reveal it after-the-fact during an outside interview, and only when someone else asks her about it. Let's repeat that: LAUREN, Bella's "enemy", apparently the human personification of evil, didn't warrant so much as an in-story explanation about her bad haircut; but LEAH, some random reservation girl we don't even get introduced to till about the third book in, who never DID anything to Bella beforehand, deserves to have it blown over the top in canon how she loses her fiancee, her cousin, her dad, her humanity, her "womanhood", and...ANY sort of support she should be getting? Disproportionate Retribution is one thing, but we've got more horrible crap happening to the girl who never did a thing to Bella till AFTER all of said "crap" than the actual girl we're SUPPOSED to be hating!
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Post by Anya the Purple on Mar 10, 2012 21:25:52 GMT -8
I guess-and this by no means excuses anything that happens to Leah; I'm just trying to figure out where Meyer's coming from-she did it in order to "show" how "wonderful" imprinting is. Like, Leah disliked the imprint relationship between Sam and Emily, and therefore she was punished. Or something like that. Again, that's not even a halfway decent excuse, but it's at least some sort of explanation.
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 11, 2012 8:52:30 GMT -8
@ CN - 0.0 Whatever did Meg do to piss off the universe so much?
Well of course we didn't. Explanations are work, and Meyer takes the easy way out on, oh just about EVERYTHING.
I agree, she did a bad job on both Lauren and Leah. Poor girls.
And yes, I've been known to torment my characters for fun and to creep out readers, but you already knew that. ;P
@ Anya - Mm, I guess that's her story for it. It's a piss poor one, but this is Meyer.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 11, 2012 13:31:04 GMT -8
^Apparently, she was boring and less popular compared to the rest of the family. You know, part of the reason I LIKED the family was because they were a FAMILY. When they started turning on one of their own like that, they stopped being a family and pretty much made up their own six-person mental institution.
I'm not surprised she took the easy way out. I'm surprised at the way she made things so difficult in the first place if there was no point to them.
@anya: It's barely passable as an explanation. I'm not saying there has to be some greater purpose for everything the writer does, but if the writer CLEARLY intends us to hate a character, they need to give us a reason. Simply having horrible things happen to a character doesn't tell us that the person is deserving of it, and Leah just being a bitch and hated by everyone does NOT make her a worse person than Bella, who tries for nothing and gets everything she could want.
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 11, 2012 23:10:00 GMT -8
.....It's times like this where I'm glad I don't live in a comedy. Poor Meg. I did a bit of research on TV Tropes and all I can say is awwwww.
Because she's a hack?
Yeah I'd like to know why we were supposed to dislike her as well.
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Post by candypants on Mar 12, 2012 4:29:53 GMT -8
Hating Meg is the joke of the show. She's hated because it's apparently funny to watch her suffer.
I feel sorry for the fact that she's treated like that. She try's to have a normal teen aged life, but she can't because of her family. It's not surprising that she does most of the destructive things she does to get attention from her emotionally devoid family. The only one to show her any type of interest is Mort Goldman. She hates him with every fiber of her being, but she should really try to date him to see if anything clicks.
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Post by bluedemonhybrid on Mar 13, 2012 16:43:53 GMT -8
Hating Meg is the joke of the show. She's hated because it's apparently funny to watch her suffer. I feel sorry for the fact that she's treated like that. She try's to have a normal teen aged life, but she can't because of her family. It's not surprising that she does most of the destructive things she does to get attention from her emotionally devoid family. The only one to show her any type of interest is Mort Goldman. She hates him with every fiber of her being, but she should really try to date him to see if anything clicks. Not only does Meg do destructive things, but lately she's been so desperate that she'd cling to any male who shows her even the slightest scrap of kindness. She planted a gun in Bonnie's suitcase once because Meg wanted to be with Joe. She did want Mort once, but it was the 'I want you because you're not available' type of thing. They should date, though.
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Post by Lady Phoenix on Mar 13, 2012 17:43:06 GMT -8
Hating Meg is the joke of the show. She's hated because it's apparently funny to watch her suffer. I feel sorry for the fact that she's treated like that. She try's to have a normal teen aged life, but she can't because of her family. It's not surprising that she does most of the destructive things she does to get attention from her emotionally devoid family. The only one to show her any type of interest is Mort Goldman. She hates him with every fiber of her being, but she should really try to date him to see if anything clicks. Not only does Meg do destructive things, but lately she's been so desperate that she'd cling to any male who shows her even the slightest scrap of kindness. She planted a gun in Bonnie's suitcase once because Meg wanted to be with Joe. She did want Mort once, but it was the 'I want you because you're not available' type of thing. They should date, though. And let's not forget what happened to Brian after he took Meg to the dance, and then kissed her while he was drunk. And that was the ONLY time Lois actually acted like a mother -- by calling out Brian and telling him to end it
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 13, 2012 19:48:57 GMT -8
^And then Meg had to nearly DIE (yet again) before Peter actually started acting like a father...for all of ONE EPISODE.
But I digress, that's actually how it feels with Leah. I don't get why we're supposed to hate her for being pissed off that her fiancee and cousin backstabbed her the way they did. I think most fans have the idea that it's been like this for years and she should be over it, but honestly, what little of the timeline we get makes it seem like it's not even been a couple months since this crap started happening. I think she has a right to some grieving time.
Someone remind me what the timeline said about this again? I think one Meyer interview said it took a good long while for Sam and Emily to get together and acts like it's been even longer since they've been a couple, but I call BS on that one. Her timeline simply doesn't allow for it. Maybe it's my bias in Leah's favor, but I'm reading the timeline as though Sam and Emily have been together for all of a month or maybe two before Bella found out.
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Post by candypants on Mar 14, 2012 4:29:39 GMT -8
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 14, 2012 9:37:14 GMT -8
According to Meyer, Sam first phased during Leah's junior year in high school. But, at other points, she said Sam and Leah were engaged when he imprinted. Bloody hell, must every couple get engaged right out of high school? Also, Leah is 20 when Bella is 18. So did Sam phase when the Cullens first moved to Forks, about a year or so before Bella arrived, and then he met Emily a month or two before New Moon? Because that's the only way it makes sense. I'm so confused.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 14:37:41 GMT -8
^And this is precisely why one outlines books and comes up with a timeline before or during writing. So this sort of sh*t doesn't happen.
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Post by SkeksisGirl on Mar 14, 2012 15:15:15 GMT -8
^Yeah, my personal feel-good ending for them is that a portal between dimensions opens up into the Supernatural universe, Leah freelances as a hunter (as if any of them don't) and Charlie ends up as a "base of operations" guy like Bobby
...Great... now I have a mental picture of Leah and Sam getting together and Dean beating the ever living shit out of Seth for being a shitty brother.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 14, 2012 15:40:45 GMT -8
^Yeah, my personal feel-good ending for them is that a portal between dimensions opens up into the Supernatural universe, Leah freelances as a hunter (as if any of them don't) and Charlie ends up as a "base of operations" guy like Bobby
...Great... now I have a mental picture of Leah and Sam getting together and Dean beating the ever living shit out of Seth for being a shitty brother.Actually, a number of us keep wanting to pair her with Dean for some strange reason. Or Cas for obvious reasons. A point Das Mervin raised in The Wedding Crashers. Simply having Leah hang out with any guy named Sam is going to lead them to assume she's with him simply because of his name. And BTW: Found a Leah-focus ficlet with SPN reference AND imprint-bashing! And Quil being likable! Gasp! www.fanfiction.net/s/7905204/1/Love_is_a_Temporary_Madness
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Post by blenderbender on Mar 14, 2012 17:47:33 GMT -8
^I loved that fic. I loved it so much, and I've never even seen Supernatural! Go Claire and Quil (damn, I never thought I'd say that).
I can kinda understand why nobody would pair Leah with a guy named Sam, seeing how well that worked out last time.
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Post by Lady of Himring on Mar 14, 2012 22:39:16 GMT -8
CN: We could discuss the Meg issue until the cows came home and it would always be the same: it's crap the treatment she gets.
Glad you mentioned the issue about Xander is that only the bad guys treat him like that. Now compare to the butt monkey that Leah is made: she's the butt monkey of her clan, the people who are suppoused to be her allies.
Yet she's treated worse than leper for the crime of having feelings and the ability to think for herself.
Blender: Netflix/rent out Buffy. ASAP. And yeah, you're not missing much on Family Guy, it was good before but it went down the drain.
I have to go with Skeksis on this one, seen Dean beat the crap out of Seth would be awesome. I loved Das Mervin's fic, it was perfection.
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Post by SkeksisGirl on Mar 15, 2012 5:46:42 GMT -8
I get why you guys have an aversion to her and anyone named Sam... but Sam's such a big ol' puppy and his life has been crap because of the whole Demon thing that it's like they would be perfect for each other cause of the whole "My life handed me rotten lemons" aspect.
If I had been able to get through more than the first chapter of twilight I might be able to tackle the Leah/Winchesters aspect. ::Thinks.::
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Mar 15, 2012 9:09:16 GMT -8
^True. They'd both be able to relate about having their normal lives completely screwed up and screwed over. Both Sam and Leah lost their respective fiancees, find out they're monsters, lose their fathers, have brothers who take to the supernatural life like fishes to water...damn, they do have a lot in common.
Hmm, what about Dean and Leah? Dean's had more of the "abandonment by family" issues he could share understand with Leah about. No offense meant to Sam, because he's a Woobie and I love him, but over the course of the series, he has left Dean more than once for one reason or another. So has their dad. He kind of seems to have abandonment issues. Hell, even the Yellow-Eyed Demon picked up on that with his "they don't need you the way you need them" comment. Hell, that was something he had to develop and get past as the series went on. Also, he knows he's directly responsible for the death of his dad, even if it was under different circumstances than Leah. Not to mention that he has that same kind of unconditional love for his brother that Leah has for Seth. Both Sam and Seth ran off with people their siblings didn't like--making a clear statement of "I choose Ruby/Jacob over you", but Dean and Leah still went after them to protect them anyway. That speaks of a lot of devotion there.
Now I have an image of Dean and Leah sharing drinks and complaining about little brothers. Hmm...
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Post by writer wannabe on Mar 15, 2012 10:12:16 GMT -8
^Least Sam loves Dean. Leah couldn't even get Seth's love since the brat is such a brown-noser.
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