Tim Willard
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Got pen, paper, booze, and ink, it's time to write.[Mo0:3]
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Post by Tim Willard on Feb 9, 2011 22:24:42 GMT -8
I have a BIG plot hole for you... (I might have mentioned it)
So, Edward can read minds, instantly knowing what they are thinking of.
Arturo (Or whatever the old geezer's name is) instantly knows EVERY thought someone has had when they touch him.
In Breaking Dawn, Edward touched Arturo's hand.
HEADS ESPLODE!!!
See, that's what we call a "feedback loop" in psuedo-scientific terms.
Arturo instantly sees everything that Edward has ever thought. Edward instantly reads his mind. Arturo sees Edward reading his mind reading Edward's entire life. Edward instantly reads Arturo's mind, where Edward is reading Arturo's mind while he is reading Edward's life...
KABOOM!
Both of their heads explode.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Feb 9, 2011 22:43:03 GMT -8
Both of their heads explode. Oh I wish! If only!
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G-Viral
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Post by G-Viral on Feb 10, 2011 5:08:40 GMT -8
I have a BIG plot hole for you... (I might have mentioned it)
So, Edward can read minds, instantly knowing what they are thinking of.
Arturo (Or whatever the old geezer's name is) instantly knows EVERY thought someone has had when they touch him.
In Breaking Dawn, Edward touched Arturo's hand.
HEADS ESPLODE!!!
See, that's what we call a "feedback loop" in psuedo-scientific terms.
Arturo instantly sees everything that Edward has ever thought. Edward instantly reads his mind. Arturo sees Edward reading his mind reading Edward's entire life. Edward instantly reads Arturo's mind, where Edward is reading Arturo's mind while he is reading Edward's life...
KABOOM!
Both of their heads explode. Holy shit, that would actually be kinda awesome. And it all adds up too, since Wardo has precisely zero control over who's minds he reads!
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Feb 10, 2011 7:05:27 GMT -8
Just a few, doncha know.
* The vampires living in the sewers. London's sewers were open ditches until the underground system was constructed between 1859 and 1865. As open ditches draining into the River Thames, these sewers would have been the worst hiding places in the history of the world. Smeyer doesn't mention said vampires being constantly covered in crap, does she? But that would have happened, plus the vampires would have been instantly spotted, as these were, you know, OPEN DITCHES.
* In England, convicted witches were not burned at the stake. They were hanged. Smeyer is obviously confusing witches with heretics. Mary Tudor had hundreds of heretics burned at the stake; none of them were witches, they were instead people who denied Catholism.
* There were no trials against accused vampires or werewolves in England. In Germany and France there were werewolf trials, but not England. There were no wolves living in England after the fifteenth century; instead, stories about werehares abounded. Vampire trials however were confined to central and Eastern Europe. There are hardly any stories about vampires in England; the only notable one is the story of the Creature Of Croglin.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Feb 10, 2011 10:26:45 GMT -8
Alice can't see the wolves because they are too unpredictable. They act without thinking. They are more like animals than humans (and they are brown colored- unfortunate implications ahoy!). This even applies when they are in their human form. Jacob uses the holes in her vision to drive his motorcycle to Bella's school and take her to La Push. But she can see newborn vamps. At least somewhat. Even though their chief characteristic is "unpredictable." I find it very hard to believe that Sam, who has been changing into a wolf for years now and has gotten a very good handle on it, is more unpredictable than a newborn vamp. This is also more telling than showing as in Jacob's part of Breaking Dawn we get to see how he and the other wolves think in wolf form. And they are perfectly logical. They make plans and follow them through. ETA: It's possible that their fake documentation also falsely lists them as medically unfit for combat. Of course, that wouldn't explain why a draft board wouldn't ask questions about why all the males in the family happen to be medically unfit, or why Carlisle wouldn't be recruited for a stateside military medical facility at the very least... Or why the guy who's apparently compassionate and is resistant to human blood would do so, least before Edwart and Esme joined in.Or why the super strong, indestructible Edward and Emmett didn't fight the wars voluntarily. Think of how many people could have been saved from Nazi camps if the allies had had a bunch of super soldiers? If they just snuck into Hitler's study one night, they'd be free to go on a blood craze.
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Post by Elentari on Feb 10, 2011 12:00:18 GMT -8
^ I think Alice can't see the wolves because she isn't one. If I remember correctly, it was explained sometime during the last book. That's why she can't see the demon spawn either - I think she was feeling physically ill during Bella's pregnancy because of that. Still, it kind of feels like Meyer just changed her mind (take Ed's monologue how it's like the shifters somehow stop existing when they transform, or some shit like that) as she went along.
Of course, this brings forth a question: how could she see the great not-battle when it was all caused by Renesmonster?
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Chibithulhu
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None can resist cuteness.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Chibithulhu on Feb 10, 2011 12:07:46 GMT -8
Just a few, doncha know.
* The vampires living in the sewers. London's sewers were open ditches until the underground system was constructed between 1859 and 1865. As open ditches draining into the River Thames, these sewers would have been the worst hiding places in the history of the world. Smeyer doesn't mention said vampires being constantly covered in crap, does she? But that would have happened, plus the vampires would have been instantly spotted, as these were, you know, OPEN DITCHES.
* In England, convicted witches were not burned at the stake. They were hanged. Smeyer is obviously confusing witches with heretics. Mary Tudor had hundreds of heretics burned at the stake; none of them were witches, they were instead people who denied Catholism.
* There were no trials against accused vampires or werewolves in England. In Germany and France there were werewolf trials, but not England. There were no wolves living in England after the fifteenth century; instead, stories about werehares abounded. Vampire trials however were confined to central and Eastern Europe. There are hardly any stories about vampires in England; the only notable one is the story of the Creature Of Croglin.
Werehares? Stories about werehares?
Awesome.
Anyone else think a huge chunk of problems could've been solved if SMeyer'd made Carlisle French? The catacombs already existed in France by the 1600s.
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Post by Blue Suede Shoes on Feb 10, 2011 13:54:22 GMT -8
Or why the super strong, indestructible Edward and Emmett didn't fight the wars voluntarily. Think of how many people could have been saved from Nazi camps if the allies had had a bunch of super soldiers? If they just snuck into Hitler's study one night, they'd be free to go on a blood craze. Except that would require them to actually care. And while Meyer tells us in the descriptions that they do, we see no evidence of this in their actions. Judging by how they actually acted in the books, I would imagine they exchanged looks of regret when they read the news and then went off and played baseball or whined about their relationships, forgetting the deaths and the suffering by the next scene. That's just how Cullens roll.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2011 14:21:39 GMT -8
I still wanna know how the Cullens all managed to avoid multiple drafts.
I totally read that and thought you were wondering how Smeyer wrote multiple drafts of Twilight and let them remain in it as characters.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Feb 10, 2011 17:58:53 GMT -8
^I guess that one is true, too.
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Chibithulhu
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Post by Chibithulhu on Feb 11, 2011 17:20:12 GMT -8
^ Yeah, that IS a good question, isn't it. But that would require multiple drafts and a talented writer.
Here's a quick question: How rich would Edwart's birth family have to have been to have all this diamond jewelry?
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Feb 11, 2011 18:13:59 GMT -8
In the Edwardian Era? Very. Judging from the description of Edward's mother's ring that thing had to have been at least 2 and a half carats, at Tiffany's an emerald cut diamond that size is over 36 thousand dollars, that's about seven hundred thousand back then.
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Chibithulhu
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None can resist cuteness.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Chibithulhu on Feb 11, 2011 18:48:41 GMT -8
In the Edwardian Era? Very. Judging from the description of Edward's mother's ring that thing had to have been at least 2 and a half carats, at Tiffany's an emerald cut diamond that size is over 36 thousand dollars, that's about seven hundred thousand back then. ... Yeah. I doubt even a "successful lawyer" would have that much money. And that's ignoring the heart necklace.
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Tim Willard
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Got pen, paper, booze, and ink, it's time to write.[Mo0:3]
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Post by Tim Willard on Feb 11, 2011 19:27:44 GMT -8
Maybe his parents had all the compassion and morality that he displays in the books.
In other words, his parents probably found a jewelry shop that the owner had died of the plague from and took the jewelry, since they were the parents of the world's most perfect man.
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Post by thewizardofoz on Feb 12, 2011 8:27:10 GMT -8
Before I begin, I'm honestly quite surprised that this post was this in-depth. I expected it to be short and sweet, but I came up with a TON of new plotholes just from things I knew offhand as well as continuing the original discussion. Plus I love Harry Potter, so that might have started it. XD Anyway... here we go. Yeah, so basically it just cancels itself out. ( nods head) Sure... why not? It makes just as much sense as anything else so far. I wouldn't be surprised if I discovered they could survive Nuttymadam's ramblings. Those things could kill anybody once you figure out what they mean. Gets my vote. I'm glad I found out that that was the case... hopefully, they can be destroyed by only fire, but the answer to that question depends VARIABLY by the fan. Some think Edward is a god-modding Stu and yet love him although don't know WHAT HE IS (OMG HE CAN SURVIVE JUST ABOUT ANYTHING!), and others state calmly and sincerely, that, yes, Meyerpires can die by cutting and burning, and even just burning. There was a crackfic (intentional) written by Fluffisacoolword and cloudmoo called (respectively) "Legal Implications" and "Shit". It is on FF.net, and I would absolutely not recommend viewing it unless you are willing to collapse in hysterical sobs of laughter. Here's a quote from it: So, basically, Edward turns Bella into Meyerpire, Bella turns a baby into ANOTHER Meyerpire, the baby dies, and with "nothing left to live for" (Goodness, she does say that A LOT, doesn't she?), she committed suicide by walking into a driftwood fire (which, by the way, is YELLOW, not BLUE. Blue would be so hot that ordinary logs and matches could not withstand the heat. A driftwood fire is basically like any fire on the woods or beach with any kind of wood founds in/on the woods or beach). I still think the burning bit was added for dramatic emphasis. After all, one cannot simply DIE in Meyerland, one has to have a gigantic, exhibitional show-off. Even JAMES got one in the first movie, which was more than I usually saw for ANYBODY! Even Wormtail's death in HP's Deathly Hallows was not nearly as faux-sophisticate, coreographed, or even CONCRETE. There was A TON OF ROOM for questioning. The main question is... Did he really die? Or will he come back for more and haunt for venegance? (Come to think of it, did Voldie really die as well? Were the Horcruxes REALLY the key to kill him permanently? Those concepts are just ideas, and quite brilliant ideas, too. Still, you have to wonder where he went. ) I think Madam Phoenix explained it quite well. Basically, she said ONCE YOU CUT OFF YOUR HEAD, YOU FUCKING DIE. Decapitation is quite possibly the easiest and most foolproof way to kill yourself, especially if you have a portable guillotine handy (as ChibiChutu has remarked). ( applauds) Amen to that, sister. ( tips authentic 1947 Brooklyn Dodgers cap)
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Feb 13, 2011 8:18:47 GMT -8
Just a few, doncha know.
* The vampires living in the sewers. London's sewers were open ditches until the underground system was constructed between 1859 and 1865. As open ditches draining into the River Thames, these sewers would have been the worst hiding places in the history of the world. Smeyer doesn't mention said vampires being constantly covered in crap, does she? But that would have happened, plus the vampires would have been instantly spotted, as these were, you know, OPEN DITCHES.
* In England, convicted witches were not burned at the stake. They were hanged. Smeyer is obviously confusing witches with heretics. Mary Tudor had hundreds of heretics burned at the stake; none of them were witches, they were instead people who denied Catholism.
* There were no trials against accused vampires or werewolves in England. In Germany and France there were werewolf trials, but not England. There were no wolves living in England after the fifteenth century; instead, stories about werehares abounded. Vampire trials however were confined to central and Eastern Europe. There are hardly any stories about vampires in England; the only notable one is the story of the Creature Of Croglin.
Werehares? Stories about werehares?
Awesome.
Anyone else think a huge chunk of problems could've been solved if SMeyer'd made Carlisle French? The catacombs already existed in France by the 1600s. Then Armand and all the vampires who already live down there would pulverise them.
Wait a minute, that would totally rock. XD
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gisbon
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Post by gisbon on Feb 13, 2011 10:39:49 GMT -8
I wanna see Alice predict an A-10 Warthog. I really do.
Ha! Well, in essence she couldn't predict the thing itself, but whoever decides to use it. Plus, there might be another meyerpire with dead on predictions skills that would see anyone using a fighter plane to drop a couple of bombs or ammunition on them. Since they are so OMG super fast, they could just literally run away from it. Lol, I doubt they are that fast. The A-10 can go toe to toe with most fighter jets now just because of how maneouverable it is. If I remember correctly It can do two strafing runs in 8 seconds, which is a crazy turning degree, and even then I doubt they could outrun the missles or 30mm shells it's firing.
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Chibithulhu
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None can resist cuteness.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Chibithulhu on Feb 13, 2011 16:54:06 GMT -8
Werehares? Stories about werehares?
Awesome.
Anyone else think a huge chunk of problems could've been solved if SMeyer'd made Carlisle French? The catacombs already existed in France by the 1600s. Then Armand and all the vampires who already live down there would pulverise them.
Wait a minute, that would totally rock. XD
And the problem would be solved, now wouldn't it? *Evil smirk*
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Pripyat Rarity
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Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Pripyat Rarity on Feb 14, 2011 13:06:44 GMT -8
Thusly is equilibrium maintained.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Feb 14, 2011 15:29:50 GMT -8
I still don't get how these vamps are supposed to be indestructible if their skin is "diamond-like". Sure, diamond is an extremely hard substance, but it's not sturdy. A good solid blow at a single point would shatter it.
Also, has anyone considered a tuning fork?
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Chibithulhu
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None can resist cuteness.[Mo0:10]
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Post by Chibithulhu on Feb 14, 2011 17:13:20 GMT -8
But they're not diamonds- They're MARBLE DIAMONDS.
Yeah, there are WAY too many things that should kill them that SMeyer either forgot, ignored, or just didn't know about and was too lazy to research.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Feb 16, 2011 18:19:13 GMT -8
In the first chapter of Eclipse Bella is pissing and moaning about how evil her dad is for grounding her so that she can only spend twenty hours a day with Edward including him sneaking into her room at night. But the chapter opens with her upstairs in her room and her father downstairs. The only reason she comes downstairs is that her father tries to cook dinner and because he has a Y chromosome he nearly burns the house down.
So, if she's up in her room alone and Edward has made a precedent of being in there without Charlie knowing (even at nights when he's in the next room) why don't they do that between the hours of three-thirty and seven-thirty? We know neither of them respect Charlie or his rules otherwise Edward wouldn't spend his nights there either.
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Post by vampirekites on Feb 16, 2011 19:44:11 GMT -8
Yeah, doesn't he sneak into her room anyway? Way to whine about a punishment that's not even being enforced. I think these are less plot holes and just examples of how Bella is a selfish brat.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Feb 16, 2011 21:46:04 GMT -8
Or an idiot.
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Post by Chaotic Neutral on Feb 16, 2011 22:16:38 GMT -8
Or both.
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Post by thewizardofoz on Feb 17, 2011 14:39:59 GMT -8
Why doesn't Bella choose Jacob, you know, when he's still human? That would have saved a lot of grief, angst, and heartache.
But seriously? Hmm... (strokes thumb and forefinger)
(snaps fingers) I've got one! So, we all know that Tyler's van didn't leave a dent in the truck whilst Tyler's van, against the laws of physics, was utterly destroyed even though it suffered minimal damage.
Still, there's one important angle that we didn't discuss. Isn't Edward super-fast, super-strong, and super-dee-duper invulernable? If so, why didn't he utterly destroy Bella's truck when he pressed his hand/arm against it? It must have withstood a lot of force and exerted quite a bit of pressure.
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limelightqueen
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Post by limelightqueen on Feb 17, 2011 14:57:43 GMT -8
Because Meyer has no grasp on physics
For instance, Bella says that Edward drives like a maniac, he never looks at the road and he thinks driving below 75 mph is slow. Her reasoning is his lightning fast reflexes will save them in the event of a possible crash. However, just because Edward has lightning fast reflexes doesn't mean his cars do, especially not a freaking Volvo. If some drunk driver swerves into the wrong lane, Edward may be able to slam on the break in time but the car's mechanisms and basic physics won't allow him to stop in time to avoid killing Bella and/or the other driver.
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Post by thewizardofoz on Feb 18, 2011 14:05:14 GMT -8
Exactly. Speaking of cars... Why the fuck is Edward driving a vehicle of Meyer's choice? I kid, I kid. XD Still, you have to give the guy some credit. He single-handedly launched a soccer-mom car as a sex-vehicle, something I would have thought impossible before Twilight. XD
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Post by vampirekites on Feb 18, 2011 14:14:32 GMT -8
Exactly. Speaking of cars... Why the fuck is Edward driving a vehicle of Meyer's choice? I kid, I kid. XD Still, you have to give the guy some credit. He single-handedly launched a soccer-mom car as a sex-vehicle, something I would have thought impossible before Twilight. XD
Yeah, I mean, Volvo's are dorky cars. Why not go for the gold and make him drive a Kia or VW Beetle? I mean, Smeyer already took away his dignity by making him sparkle, having him drive something a middle aged, balding accountant drives is just putting salt in the wound.
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Post by thewizardofoz on Feb 20, 2011 15:27:46 GMT -8
Yeah, I mean, Volvo's are dorky cars. Why not go for the gold and make him drive a Kia or VW Beetle? I mean, Smeyer already took away his dignity by making him sparkle, having him drive something a middle aged, balding accountant drives is just putting salt in the wound. Well, let's examine the list of the Cullens' cars, shall we? Emmett has a Jeep, Rosalie has an Audi/M3 BMW, Alice has a Porsche, Jasper has a Harley-Davidson, and Carlisle has a Mercedes Guardian. Why do they all buy these frightfully expensive cars? Not only do they fail to fit in with the crowd, if they ever got caught speeding or threatening/abusing others (such as Edward to Bella), the police could list a long line of documentation records for all those illegally-bought cars, they'd check the Cullens' citizenship status, and the Cullens would be executed with Meyerpire-killing weapons. Still, all this begs the question. If the Cullens have so much money, and they feel like all they can do with it is buy expensive toys and resort islands, then why doesn't anyone outside of Forks know about them? Think about it: if Charlie says Carlisle is New York-grade ER material, then surely everyone knows about the Cullens outside of Forks. Maybe they even have one or two references in Alaska. But no... instead, we get this insane, out-of-place anonymity. What gives, Meyer?
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